Interesting bizarro world inhabited by our friend from Bisbee.
If the boy would look a little more closely (or listen to something other than faux-noise) he would find that it was his friends in the republican and blue-dog corporate democrat ranks who sold the USAmerican people out to their corporate capitalist masters for short-term profits... There were NO "liberals" involved...
As for "becoming great", if he means grabbing everything that wasn't nailed down after the destruction of WWII and creating a situation where 70% of USAmericans have to take a prescription drug to get through the day (along with their non-prescribed beer and football), then I guess he's right...
Oh yeah, and Mother Nature bats last...
Democrats now know they're going to lose the Senate in 2014, and they want to do as much damage as they can before that happens.
Pinochet Suites....irony is truly wasted on you, isn't it? If you applaud Pinochet, then you are a fascist masquerading as a human being; someone who justifies torture, murder and the overthrow of democratically-elected governments in the name of profit. Or perhaps just a "reasonable" business climate. There may well be ethical people in the mining business but you, sir, are not one of them. You may not enslave miners for subsistence wages, fire, beat or kill them when they attempt to unionize or otherwise object to their conditions or knowingly dump mercury into the local streams but your claim that other companies can't or don't do business in that fashion is a bald-faced lie. Here is a no-doubt incomplete list of articles from the past few years addressing those very issues worldwide, many within Chile itself.
Feel free to attack the source(s) all you like; the facts are indisputable. You are an apologist for fascism and corporate avarice as evidenced by your own words above. I am not opposed to mining, recognizing its vital necessity to the modern world and its components. I am, however, virulently opposed to exploitation, bribery, theft, murder and the wholesale rape of environments for profit, all of which are utilized by the majority of the largest players in the mining industry (Barrick, Rio Tinto, Massey, et al) as a standard business practice, your hollow protests to the contrary notwithstanding
"...bad actors" indeed; the only bad acting here is your transparent attempt at denial.
I am not, in any way connected to the Rosemont mine or the parent company. I do not even know any of the players. It has been more than 25 years since I have worked on a US based project and while I have worked with Canadian companies during this time, it was all gold related
I agree, the choice of the word “reasonable” was a poor one. My intent was to suggest that the regulations be sufficiently protective of the environment during development, operation and, most importantly, during closure, while still allowing for responsible natural resource development. In general, the US regs meet these criteria and any mining company I work for does/would meet them. There are however, countries that have what I would call “unreasonable” rules in that they are so rigid that they preclude mining/oil and gas recovery or so poorly written/enforced that they fall short of truly protecting the environment and people.
There are, of course individuals and companies that take advantage of weakness in laws or their lax enforcement. I see this often in developing countries, but not just in the natural resource business, but in timber harvesting, agricultural applications – farming and livestock, development of commercial and apartment buildings. I know of no US or Canadian listed companies which do this, as the embassy staffs keep a close watch on the companies that call the stock markets in these countries home. The real problems at this time, come with some private companies from China – not Chinese State-owned, some Brazilian companies, not all and Indian groups as well as a myriad of local companies or individuals in most countries.
World-wide, responsible natural resource companies engage whole heartedly in sustainable development projects that lift up the locals in many ways and I am very proud to look at some I have personally directed as long as 20 years ago in west Africa and more recently the jungles of Peru and how the lives of so many are markedly better and continue to improve. This is very much like my own childhood, where the mining companies filled the gaps left by government during the depression and made Bisbee a great place to grow up and to be educated in. This is the model I use.
It is the seemingly endless use of the courts that makes the US an unfriendly environment, not the science. Oft times the science is debated in the courts with lawyers and judges who haven’t a clue what is correct taking decisions well beyond their knowledge base. Thus things end up being interminably delayed. I take offence at the suggestion that the responsible players in my chosen industry pay off corrupt officials and lawyers. This does not happen within the many companies that I have worked. I have seen companies abandoned millions in sunk costs because it became apparent that only through bribery can the project be completed. There are many ethical people in this business and the vast majority does not nor will not engage in corrupt activities. However, refer to my note above about the bad actors in this business.
Time to go to work; I will address your other points in the evening when I return to my three star hotel. I am not quite privileged enough to enjoy the “Pinochet Suits.” In fact I don’t know that I have even heard of them before. I am however, a great fan of Pinochet and applaud what he did for Chile, which was a difficult, messy, but necessary task.
Thank you for your thoughtful response. FWIW, I'm just a concerned citizen, not a member of any organization or group, Sierra Club or otherwise. In the interests of full disclosure, are you paid to consult for the Rosemont project?
At the risk of being accused of splitting hairs, I'd like to focus on a few of the statements you made, the first about political environments where mines can be "reasonably" developed. This is a standard mantra of resource capitalists who encounter wage or environmental laws they consider too onerous, threatening them with reduced profitability. In other words, if they can't set the agenda via lobbyists or hired thugs, they'll take their toys to a friendlier sandbox. I can't imagine how this attitude/business practice could possibly spark resentment or resistance among people who live on and around the resources desired by said mining companies, can you?
Additionally, your description of US environmental laws and their application is entirely one-sided and self-serving. While I am no fan of the government, I recognize when it performs useful functions, one of which would be preventing environmental catastrophes amongst its citizenry. One of the main reasons it takes "tens of years" to receive the proper permits is that they are repeatedly denied on simple scientific grounds until the proper ciphers can be placed within the local political establishment to create a more "reasonable" environment for their passage. An expensive process, to be sure, but don't go looking for sympathy just because your chosen industry is forced to pay off myriad corrupt officials and lawyers to achieve the desired outcome in a locale'. Again, I can't see how this could ever, under any stretch of the imagination, stir resentment...
It's a shame you can't get past the liberal/conservative illusion. Bill Clinton gave tens of thousands of free acres on public lands to mining companies during his tenure, including (as you must be aware) a good portion of the Saguaro National Park West near the old Silverbell mine. Mining is allowed, it's just not "reasonable" enough to do so yet because of those pesky humans living in the area who insist on keeping their wells usable. (Odd, I know-why don't they just buy Perrier with their welfare checks and stop bothering those stalwart, blameless mining executives you're paid to consult for?)
You're right about those damn Democrats bringing us the 2008 crash, but it had nothing to do with "fair housing" and everything to do with crooked bankers knowingly bundling and selling bad loans to multiple investors until the house of cards collapsed. Our pensions have still not recovered-I bet you're one of those who actually believe their investment counselors when they tell you it was all the fault of those damned old people outliving the insurance adjustors' estimates, aren't you? And it was all enabled by Democrats, who worked directly with the GOP to kill off the Glass-Stegall Act with the Gramm/Leach/Bliley bill in 1999. Those conservatives you seem to think so highly of sold you and this nation down the river years ago hand-in-hand with the liberals. Too bad you're unable to see it.
Finally, election integrity will bring back America. Well, that and accountability for the rats who stole us blind. That includes Obama, the Bushes, the Clintons and all the Bernie Madoffs who have yet to be exposed. Enjoy Chile-I understand the Pinochet Suites are quite comfortable...for those with the money, at any rate. I'm sure you'll fit right in.
This while thing is laughable because the other bar owner is not from az but the guys that brought a WOB here are.
JCC, he's totally a talented artist. He's also an asshole.
Let's not pretend the two are mutually exclusive concepts, especially considering how many talented people are completely abhorrent outside of their field.
Pleased to enlighten you. First, let me note that I have worked in the natural resource industry on a World-wide basis for more than 50 years and I continue to serve as a consultant to companies developing mines in Africa, two South America countries as well as the construction of a gas pipeline in Peru. Currently, I am in Antofagasta, Chile as a part of a project review team. I know the business and the challenges faced in many countries. Now to the answers for your questions:
1). World demand for copper is growing exponentially. After iron, copper is the most important metal in construction and the lifting of living standards. Some of the most populous nations are earth are on the road to higher living standards. Thus, huge amounts of copper will be needed. In any event, the predictions of running out of this vital metal come from outside of the industry by those who see the increase in World population as a threat. Copper deposits are not scarce on a World basis; what are scarce are political environments where they can be reasonably developed. Politically, the US is a high risk country for any natural resource development.
Why should we open more mines, you ask, well the true wealth of any nation is in the basic industries. Far more than just jobs flow from new mines, but the enhancement of local and regional infrastructure as well. The add-value jobs of refining and fabrication of tubing, sheeting, etc. are vital to our economic structure and when done in America by American labour with domestically produced materials, the multiplier effect of additional jobs is enormous.
The more domestically produced copper/iron/manganese etc., the better for the whole country. Open more mines – ABSOLUTLY.
2). The manner in which the US laws are arbitrarily applied is a job killer. The recent EPA over reach on coal and the hugely expensive delays on the Keystone Pipeline are excellent examples. In Chile, from discovery to operation, a large open-pit copper mine will require seven to ten years. Here in the US, because of the flexible way the EPA and or other agencies may apply a seemingly simple rule can and does add tens of years to the time required to receive the construction permits. The costs associated with this type of useless delay kills projects and this a strategy commonly employed by the anti-American Sierra Club/Green Peace types. It is now being employed against the Rosemont and Resolution copper projects in Arizona.
3).Most of the answer to this question is in the above, but the last 30 years include eight years of Bill Clinton as well as overcoming the difficulties of the endless law suits against any project in the liberal courts filled with Johnson and Carter appointees at the request of such as the Sierra Club and Green Peace. This coupled with the treasonous withdrawal of huge tracts of public lands - rich in coal/oil/gas/minerals – from development by the loonies in the White House. In truth, the first president Bush was not truly a conservative and his son had too many Democrats in congress to do what was truly needed to re-vitalize American industry - the same Democrats that brought us the 2007/2008 recession with their "fair housing" lunacy.
Vote conservative and bring back America.
in theory, the guy that said "don't like the pay, go somewhere else..." is correct....in practice not only is that garbage, but it's just mean. the problem is, everyone else it's playing the same game, and education is a great way out of this if you are fortunate enough to find a way to pay for it. I have given up on McDonald's and reuse to darken their doors. that is a great choice.
Hello... Get a television with parental control.. In fact just don't watch it. The local news in any community is far worse than a tv show. Teach your kids not to hate, do drugs, smoke, and respect them selfs. That's a start..
A few questions for Bisbee Boy:
1. If there are so many copper mines already open around the world, why the dire predictions of running out of the metal from the industry? And why, other than jobs, should we open another one here if your assertion about copper mines is correct?
2. If these worldwide mines are similar in wage and environmental laws, then why does the industry complain so vociferously about US laws, citing them as the reason they have been unable to open a mine here?
3. If conservatives are so pro-business, how is it that, according to you, virtually no mineral resources are being developed here when conservatives have run this nation for over 30 years?
Explain these paradoxes to us, sir. But do yourself and the world a favor and remove the partisan blinders first.
Since things need to be repeated, I'll reciprocate: I said it might have happened that way (i.e. the possibility exists), not that it did. And I'm sure an article sold in the Hotel Congress lobby is a hard-hitting piece of journalism worthy of a Pulitzer in and of itself and in no way resembles a puff piece. Since, however, you were likely alive at the time of the incident, I'll grant you the benefit of the doubt.
As usual, Jim did a fine job as moderator and the topics were timely. Ann-Eve Pedersen made it clear, once again, that the Arizona Education Network (union) is an operative arm of the Democratic Party. Small wonder the state's education is in shambles with her and others like her in the game.
Both Jorgensen and Pedersen were quick to write the epitaph of the Rosemont Mine. This complies with orders from our dictator in chief - Obama - to stop any opportunity for economic recovery. Ann-Eve is truly uneducated in what makes economies work and where the funding for her liberal union comes from. She is an embarrassment to the profession.
You can say this show is not for children, and that's fine----so STOP showing the commercials at 1p.m. on SATURDAY afternoon when kids are at home!!! I'm sick of this crap being shoved down my throat just because a small population of people think it's funny. If you are a person who thinks this type of "humor" is OK, then you need to rethink either your moral code or your IQ. Next time a teen or young adult turns up on the news having done some unspeakable act- just remember this culture of debauchery we endorse. If we don't speak up- it's endorsement! SHAME ON FX!!!!
You mean Don Jorgensen?
Just so you know, the D-II and III championships are set for Friday, the 29th...not Saturday, the 30th. And if you had not seen it, fields were completely covered in water and no way fans could get into the stands in some venues because of the flooding, as posted on AZCentral.com. In addition, the AIA works to get venues schedule for neutral sites with what is available...if turf fields were available, sure, would schedule...but so many factors including staffing of the games, seating for the expected crowds, etc. This is no way is a streaming decision, as you try to put it. Get your facts right. And as a writer for whatever you call this online paper, watch your language. UofA is unavailable Saturday due to no staff on site as they will be up at the ASU/UofA game. Could the games be moved to a later date? Still possible as Harold discussed on the ArizonaSportsPreps365 Radio Show this morning. Hopefully, we will be able to say one way or another by COB Monday.
^^ thanks shill.
Even if McCain is right, at least for a couple of years the senate can legislate. PS. Tell McCain that people won't vote for an 80 year old.
Amazing, the article has been rewritten! I wonder why. Funny how things can change.
To all who choose to look, for the last 10 or so years, the Chinese Government has been buying natural resources around the world with US dollars, in part to reduce their exposure to our overvalued dollar. Very clever and well considered, in my opinion, as they extract raw materials from their mines or oil fields throughout the world and sell much of the finished products to us as well as the rest of the world.
The jobs associated with refining the imported ores and the manufacturing of the goods stay in China. Once upon a time, this is what America did and it became great doing so. Now, because the anti-development, fantasy-prone Democrats force unreasonable rules and regulations on all we do (EPA; Obamacare, global warming, anyone), this is the past.
We, as a country, are destined to become a beggar society, because we let the liberals export the jobs we could have, in the false belief that they are saving the planet. The recent, absolutely crazy conference in Warsaw over the illusion of man-made climate change was one giant hug-fest for these weirdoes. Next, we, the taxpayers and consumers will be paying the bill for this stupidity because the Chinese will not foot the cash for the losers in DC.
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