Former KGUN-TV News Director Forrest Carr, who was raised down South, reflects on the Confederate Flag:
The sad truth about the confederate battle flag is that whatever supporters would say about why it still needs to fly and why it might be worthy of public admiration, hate groups have stolen it from us. Add this to the long, long list of items for which such groups cannot be forgiven. They’ve hijacked it and the theft is an accomplished fact. When that flag goes on display, a message of racism goes with it—whether that is the intended effect or not. For the recipient, the impact can be as in-your-face aggressive as the sight of a swastika—which hate groups often display alongside it.
The swastika got its poor reputation the same way. It spent 3,000 years being revered by various religions and cultures as a symbol meaning “auspiciousness” among other things. Then the Nazis appropriated it. Display it today and you’ll get only one reaction.
Those who would continue to support the public display of the confederate flag really have two questions to ask themselves. One: Does it make any sense to deny that hate groups have stolen the symbol and made it their own? Or should flag supporters continue the battle to wrest the flag away from hate groups—and in doing so, risk offending a good portion of America?
Looking at race relations as they now stand in this country, to me it’s hard to argue that we should be doing less to salve old wounds and resolve old and current injustices.
This article appears in Jun 25 – Jul 1, 2015.
Sad these people only go by what they are told to think instead of finding out the history of something. Nothing was ever made of it until that thug shot up the church. Seems that if we can’t get the approval of the blacks, liberals or gays everything we do or say is hate according to those groups. Just keep it up because sooner or later it will come around and bite you. Nothing last forever.
Goodbye First Amendment. Liberals (progressives) want nothing more than to kill it. You will either accept what they profess, pay a tax, or be shamed.
Hmmm. Sounds a lot like radical Islamists.
Exactly, What, Again. Using the law to destroy artifacts from the past, as liberals are doing now, is not any different than ISIS destroying artifacts that they deem to be unacceptable. It’s all pretty sad.
Kind of like how RACISM has been stolen from white folks, and NOW black folks are the RACISTS? Yeah I get that.. However, anyone can make any symbol , one of hate, that does not mean EVERYONE who say “likes a flag from our past” is Hateful, or a Racist.. Nothing like painting EVERYONE with the same brush, or that called STEREOTYPING? Yes, it is.
I don’t care what flag you put up at your house or attach to your monster truck. But the confederate flag has no business on a government building. It was never used by the confederate states. It was, however, used widely by the KKK. So fly away. You “conservatives” are so touchy about your right to be an asshole.
You must ask yourselves, “how much of what I believe simply isn’t true?”
That list grows longer every day. If you don’t know history you are doomed to repeat it.
Is that your goal?
The confederate flag is the symbol of a government dedicated to one idea: the preservation of slavery. It’s been adopted by white supremacists ever since. Yes, lots of good people were misled by their (slave-owning) leaders and fought for it for good reasons, but today we recognize what it really stands for: slavery.
If you want to fly it, fine. You’re either ignorant, racist, or just so inconsiderate as to not care about your fellow Americans who are black. But it shouldn’t fly from any government building in the U.S.
@trainsmanswife et al Plenty has been made of the flag for a long time. I guess FOX News never covered it. How about some historical perspective? After the Civil War, the Confederate battle flag was dormant. The battle flag started flying again in the midst of the civil rights era as a dissent to federal civil rights laws.
“South Carolina’s confederate flag hasn’t been flying since the Civil War. The flag wasn’t prominently displayed in the South until southern politicians began using it in their campaigns; and South Carolina didn’t start flying the flag at its state capitol until 1962, a century after the war began.
In the 1950s, as the Civil Rights Movement built up steam, you began to see more and more public displays of the Confederate battle flag, to the point where the state of Georgia in 1956 redesigned their state flag to include the Confederate battle flag.”
“in 1962, the state of South Carolina put the Confederate battle flag atop the capitol building in Columbia, South Carolina. The public reason for that [was that they] were celebrating the 100th anniversary of the Civil War. But in fact it was again a flag of defiance [against] the federal government and racial equality, because it was at the height of the Civil Rights Movement in the South.”
To deny that that flag is a negative and hurtful symbol to many is to be completely obtuse. To claim that nothing was made of this flag prior to nine murders in a church is simply historically inaccurate.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2015/06…
The flag represents the Confederacy. The Confederacy was created because the south wanted the new territories (Kansas for example) to become states of slavery. Lincoln did not. Consequently, the confederacy seceded and to preserve the union, and not promote slavery, the Civil War began. Now anyone can spin that any way they want but those are facts. Yes the North invaded the South but do you really want to promote the fact that the flag represents the South saying it was their right to have slavery? The spins vary but the South wanted their own way of life was the most dominant. The spinners fail to say that that included the necessity of have slaves to harvest the huge plantations. Another spin is well the North had some slaves too. Well the North gave up their slaves and the South did not want to give up their comfortable means of cheap labor. The war was about any state wanting to keep slavery and the states fought accordingly. If a Northerner believed in the South’s cause, they fought for the Confederacy. So stop the racism . Let the flag go. You are being victims because the African-Americans were released and are still fighting racism. White people were not the victims nor are we now. The flag represents hate even if you don’t like that. And yes some of the Nazis of long ago said that until the day they died….. that the symbol represented a way of life and not hatred…. tell that to all the Jews, gypsies and prostitutes who were killed.
“The swastika would become the most recognizable icon of Nazi propaganda, appearing on the flag referred to by Hitler in Mein Kampf as well as on election posters, arm bands, medallions, and badges for military and other organizations. A potent symbol intended to elicit pride among Aryans, the swastika also struck terror into Jews and others deemed enemies of Nazi Germany. “
http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?Mo…
The Confederate flag waving also elicits terror in the hearts of African-Americans as it should.
It’s the Confederate battle flag, not the Confederate national flag, and it most certainly IS a blatant symbol of racism. It was brought back in the 1950s on southern state flags as a symbol of defiance against federal efforts to desegregate public schools. It has served as a symbol of racism for skinheads, Nazis, the Klan, the National Front and other far-right racist extremist groups for several decade. The Confederacy, contrary to the lame “states rights” argument right-wing apologists have tried to make since the late 1800s, was founded on a bedrock of slavery and white supremacy. Read this excerpt from Confederate Vice President Alexander Stephens’ infamous “Cornerstone” speech of March 22, 1861:
“Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea (from Jefferson’s stated belief that all men are created equal): its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery – subordination to the superior race – is his natural and moral condition.”
The same argument is made, over and over, in the declarations of causes for secession issued by the southern states as they left the union. This is their written testament to their cause. It is the smoking gun that the former rebels conveniently forgot after they were forced to surrender. Their cursed confederacy was formed and died on a bedrock of white supremacy and black slavery. Any Goober who wishes to fly that despicable rag of treason and racism has the right to do so BUT that hateful piece of cloth has no business flying over any public building.
This was the battelflag of the confederacy.
What does this mean? This was the flag they marched into battle with so they would not accidentally shoot each other.
They were started a war against the USA and the Stars and Stripes. By flying your confederate flag, the only thing you are communicating to me is that you are still at war with my country and OUR flag. Maybe the south did not burn long enough and those promoting the flag should be punished again for their brash and open support of war against the USA.
Flying the confederate flag is an act of tyranny and should be punished as such.
Act of tyranny? What an idiot. I meant to type treason.
Flying the confederate flag is an act of treason and should be punished as such.
Of course, lighting Obama’s white house in rainbow colors didn’t offend anyone, well, only christians. And to ‘progressive jihadists’, they’re just infidels of the Church of Global Warming.
Cop haters plan flag-burning rally at NYC park
Now there’s something Tucson ‘progressives’ can get behind. Maybe the Grijalva’s will organize TUSD children to attend.
So, why do rappers like Kanye wear the Confederate flag on their clothes and wrap themselves in it if it’s racist against blacks? Google it.
If rainbow colors offend you, stay out of the rain.
Kanye West as a role model? Forgive me for LOL.
Cop haters? I thought the topic was the Confederate Battle flag?
I think if Governor Haley and other Republicans can ask for the flag to come down, you regressives can’t seek cover anymore for holding outdated and hurtful opinions and notions.
As on full display, the ‘progressive jihadists’ are on the march – to stomp out the first amendment and any diversity of thought.
No wonder you’re called What, Again. Regardless of the facts, you just don’t get it. You are welcome to wave that battle flag anywhere you want, and reap the consequences, but a state in the USA should not be sanctioning a symbol of slavery and treason.
Rainbows offend you? Do you cringe every time you see the NBC logo? Does Reading Rainbow and it’s mission of advancing literacy boggle your mind? Do skittles make you tremble? I would hate to see what would happen if you accidentally watched an episode of Care Bears or Rainbow Bright!
The rainbow flag was created in 1978 by Gilbert Bake and according to him the colors represent different values: pink for sex, red for life, orange for healing, yellow for sunlight, green for nature, blue for art, indigo for harmony, and violet for the human spirit.
What does the Confederate flag represent? The maker, William Thompson, of the “Stainless Banner” (the Confederate flag, set on white) and created in 1863 is quoted as saying:
“As a national emblem, it is significant of our higher cause, the cause of a superior race, and a higher civilization contending against ignorance, infidelity, and barbarism. Another merit in the new flag is, that it bears no resemblance to the now infamous banner of the Yankee vandals.”
The confederate flag is symbolic of racism and treason. It is as simple as that.
Pima Mujer, could you tell us where in the constitution you found the right to tell another state what to do?
You might want to read the 10th Amendment and understand the federalist principles that are the foundation of our country.
You just don’t get it, regardless of the constitution and the bill of rights.
More American soldiers (North and South) died in the Civil War than in WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan combined. The Confederacy was that adamant about preserving slavery and extending it westward. The North was certainly anti-slavery but there were many other issues that helped ignite the butchery. The battle flag of the confederacy does not belong on flag poles or in statehouses, but it is an historical relic of the worst war ever fought by this country. It belongs in museums and history books to remind us of the violent origins of the US and the lengths millions were willing to die for to own other humans and keep them enslaved.
Pima Mujer I have no idea if Fox news covered it or not I don’t watch it.
Were you aware that in 1962 that the Confederate flag was put on the South Carolina capital building by a democrat?
The US is $18T in debt, we are under threat of attack by radical islamists, are borders are wide open to terrorists, jobs are being forced out of our country (by our own government yet again), and the flag is the issue that fires you up?
Pop culture has replaced history and you are now family with the Kardeshians.
Congratulations. Your focus is the issue de jour.
The constitution and SCOTUS are all about telling states what they can and can’t do, not withstanding the 10th amendment. Still people can do the right thing on their own too. If you want to fly the battle flag, go ahead. We’ll get where you’re coming from.
Here is a little different historical perspective.
http://www.rulen.com/myths/
Total comedy here. Clinton-Gore 92′ campaign poster was a confederate flag and their campaign button had both of them in dressed in confederate gray union soldiers with the motto “new sons of the south” there is your hypocrisy.
You Mad Bro?
The reference you make is to pictures of a campaign button that have popped up in the last few weeks which purport to be from the 1992 Clinton-Gore campaign. These were not produced by the Clinton campaign and there is no evidence to suggest that they even existed during the 1992 campaign. Official campaign material was Union made and bears their marks. These buttons are not marked and were most likely made by people trying to make a buck. They are not any different than the “fake” political stickers people put on their car attacking or mocking our current president.
Some people believe what they see, but most people see what they believe. You are just another blind idiot who reads something that he agrees with without fact checking it first. The egg is on your face now.
What is your next failed attempt at misdirection away from the racist treason flag going to be?
Not true….. “You Mad Bro” .. Clinton and Gore said they did not do this and Snopes said there is no evidence that it came from their campaign at all. I wish you would check your sources “You Mad Bro”.
http://m.snopes.com/clinton-gore-92-confed…
Contrary to the stereotypes that Dr. Foner and other liberals try so hard to promote, Fulbright was also a very liberal Democrat. He was a staunch supporter of labor unions. He always lobbied for appeasement of the Soviet Union; and opposed American aid to Israel, which was, at that time, the only Middle-Eastern nation aligned with the United States against the Soviet Union.
He also did all he could to impair America’s fight against Communism in Vietnam, writing two books on the subject, and using his position as Chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee to undermine the war effort.
Fulbright’s office provided assistance to young men who wanted to avoid the draft, including a young future President of the United States named Bill Clinton, whom Fulbright hired as a clerk just two years after filibustering to block the 1964 Civil Rights Act.5
As for “McCarthyism,” Senator Fulbright hated it just about as much as Professor Foner does.
http://historyhalf.com/race-and-party-politics-part-ii-senator-fullbright-and-justice-black/
“The more you know, the more you know.”
New York: Former US President Bill Clinton had taken a racial jibe at Barack Obama in 2008, saying “this guy would have been carrying our bags”, a report claimed on Monday.
Mr Clinton allegedly made the racially insensitive remark to Senator Ted Kennedy as he tried to convince the liberal to endorse his wife, Hillary Clinton, Mr Obama’s rival, for the Democratic nomination, according to The New Yorker.
Only days before he will nominate President Obama for re-election in the November 6 presidential polls, the report claimed that in 2008 the former President had reportedly said: “A few years ago, this guy would have been carrying our bags.”
The reported comment was similar to the one attributed to Mr Clinton in a 2010 book.
“A few years ago, this guy would have been getting us coffee,” Mr Clinton was quoted as saying in Game Change, by John Heilemann and Mark Halperin.
http://www.ndtv.com/world-news/bill-clinton-made-racist-remarks-about-barack-obama-in-2008-report-498484
Bill Clinton must think Barrack Obama is a man of many talents. Either that or they never have changed. You my friend have been fooled.
What does that have to do with the TREASONOUS and RACIST confederate flag?
Misdirection fail.
So now it’s OK to make fun of people that have ADHD?
The Confederate battle flag was the symbol under which soldiers of the secessionist states fought, and often died. It obviously represented their belief that the Northern states did not have ascendency over the Southern states, but it also was the banner of those who fought to maintain the institution of slavery in the South (and their wish to expand that institution into other territories).
Whatever the reasons that the North initially fought the Civil War (primarily to preserve the Union), the Southern secessionist states were unequivocally fighting for the maintenance of slavery as part of their agricultural economies. Look at the statements for the “Declarations of Causes” from the seceding states – http://www.civilwar.org/education/history/… There can be no doubt that the preservation of slavery was a primary cause of the South.
I have a heritage of Southern ancestors from Georgia who fought in the Civil War. My great-great-grandfather owned slaves and four of his sons fought in the war in a volunteer regiment from the beginning to the end of the War. One son was wounded at the battle of Spotsylvania Court House and later died of his wounds. He is buried in the Confederate cemetery at the site of that battle.
I don’t deny my heritage, but I certainly have no need to preserve it. Flying the Confederate battle flag is a sordid continuance of the legacy of slavery and subjugation of African Americans. It is obviously a symbol that still resonates with the Klu Klux Klan and many who would deny the outcome of a war fought 150 years ago. It should be a discredited symbol that would only reside in the dust bin of history.
David W Totally fabricated story at http://www.rulen.com….. It is no better than posting from Fox. Information from them has no historian behind them with any repute. This is the story the South told themselves when they began to feel some guilt and shame about slavery. If you really want the truth there are website checkers to determine if they are liberal, conservative or centrist. I look at mostly centrist websites when I fact check. Fox is deemed extremely right.
It is documented by many historians that Lincoln was always against slavery. However, he did not act on it until the South demanded that the new territories should be slave states. There was no doubt why the Civil War was fought. Nobody said…. hmmm…. Why does Lincoln object to the new territories being slave states? Nobody said, …… hmmmmmm I don’t know why we are seceding from the union but we must. THey all knew. It is only the rewriting of history that supposedly has caused questions. When Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation 2 years after it started, it was just making it perfectly clear that the South had to release their slaves. So the issue was made more intense at that point by doing that than by just saying the South could not secede because they wanted the new territories to be slave states. Lincoln was clear at that point that slavery was over. Notable historians do not have confusion at all.
You mad bro? I totally win getting you to play my game. That was easy. Like there is any credibility with ” I did not have sex with that woman”
The Confederate flag does not represent hate groups. Hate groups use the Confederate flag to try to identify themselves with something recognizable from the south.
Slavers and Treasonous Rebels are a pretty hateful lot indeed.
Imagine, if you can all the hate groups mentioned here marching under the flag they revere the most, the American flag. Or think back to what is an unfortunate photograph about hate, an American flag on a pole being used by a white demonstrator to spear a Black man at an anti busing protest in the ’70s. All this talk about a single object of hate when the American flag is actually the preferred flag of these groups as is The Pledge of Allegiance. This would have been a better article if it had addressed the real issue, hate. I’ll bring it up because the focus is on the hysteria of an object and not the hate which seems to NOT be of interest here.
That is exactly our point Harold. Next they will force themselves to attack the American flag. It’s only logical. Racist comments were posted that were actually spoken by Bill Clinton above but they prefer to attack political parties, news channels, and people motivated to grow their businesses. And yet they accuse everyone else of hate.
Excluding the Confederate flags bought in the last ten days I have to wonder how many have been sold in, let’s say the past ten years. I’m going to guess the people buying those flags had reasons other than hate or racism for their purchase. And while the Confederate flag means different things to different people it is true the Nazi symbol is the most vile of all. And imagine the hue & cry if I went out, bought a white Japanese p/u truck, mounted a fake machine gun in the bed and drove around town flying a well known and much feared black flag with Persian writing. I bet I’d be stopped more times than someone in Boston shopping for pressure cookers.
When it comes to symbolism, not sure if the swastika is more vile than the Sterling Banner, about which its creator said this: …it symbolizes the “supremacy of the white man,” according to William T. Thompson, the flag’s designer. “As a people we are fighting to maintain the Heaven-ordained supremacy of the white man over the inferior or colored race,” http://www.latimes.com/visuals/graphics/la…
If you are descended from someone who was kidnaped, forced into slavery, had his children sold for cash and his women raped by their owner, it’s asking a bit much to overlook the symbolism of that practice being rubbed in your face by some folks who just want to celebrate the nostalgia of the treason.
Hmm, when you mention the symbol of all those acts against other humans I take it you are referring to the national standard under which ALL slaveholding states were in allegiance to during the height of that slavery. Ican see your point about that standard, used in the OTHER forms I mentioned being more hateful than one under which millions were systematically murdered for no other reason than a surname.
How will the removal of the American flag resolve hate?
What is a Flag?
According to modern vexillology (the study flags) flags are symbolic forms of communications.
What is known today as the Confederate flag was used as a flag on naval vessels and as a battle flag for war against the USA, and was designed by men who made clear their intentions for maintaining slavery and their perceived racial superiority. After the civil war it was adopted by hate groups such as the KKK who were predominant and powerful in many southern states, especially during the 50’s and 60’s as a reaction to the civil rights movement. The flag of the KKK, the flag of the treasonous white supremacist confederate army was then voted in as a state flag? This history is undeniable and nobody seems to be denying it. It cannot be undone.
That is clear and distinct history. The message and symbolic nature of the confederate flag is clear and it is meant to be abrasive and oppressive. It is it’s history.
.Anyone who is hanging a confederate flag and claiming that it’s “heritage” or “southern pride” is only deluding themselves. They would be better off hanging a Nazi flag and claiming Buddhism. The rest of see a racist coward, and we judge your ancestors as such too. If that is not who you are, take the flag down and fly old glory.
Arizona Illustrated had a great piece last week or earlier this week about a local police officer who is refurbishing flag poles and helping people fly stars and stripes again. What a positive flag story.
Ever wondered where the term “Old Glory” comes from?
Sea Captain William Driver hid a large homemade American flag in a bed sheet during the civil war in Nashville. When Union troops entered the city he presented it to the General in charge, saying:
“This is the flag I hope to see hoisted on that flagstaff in place of the damned Confederate flag set there by that damnedd rebel governor, Isham G. Harris. I have had hard work to save it; my house has been searched for it more than once.’ He spoke triumphantly, with tears in his eyes.”[2][4] Nelson accepted the flag and ordered it run up on the Capitol flagstaff, accompanied by “frantic cheering and uproarious demonstrations.”[2] The 6th Ohio later adopted the motto “Old Glory.”
Patriots fly the American Flag, racist separatists fly the confederate rag. Who do you align with?
Buddhism? Now you’re anti religion too?
Re; Your last sentence, humanbean i seem to have only two choices but neither of them has anything to do with hate except by virtue of the choices you mandate. I choose to reject your version in place of the values of my formative and adult years. I reject YOUR hate as well as that of Mr. Room since they are one and the same.
I have no real opinion on the flag, as I have no connection to it. I did grow up in the South Bronx, but I don’t think that applies. What I do find humorous is that Walmart pulled all flag related items from their stores. Their reason is that it represents hate. Yet, I can still go their record department and buy C.D.s from rap artists ( I’d name one but I can say with pride I really don’t know much about them.) that talk about rapeing hos and killing cops. Every other word the “N” word. Not exactly ” All you need is love”
Black lives matter CW…when they say they matter. More than a dozen will die this weekend from black gang activity.
Black lives matter and the loss of ANY life to violence is a contradiction to that truth. ALL lives matter and the loss of ANY life to violence is a contradiction of that truth.
Rap is only music and anyone acting out as the result of that music is no different than a young man who hatefully murders nine people in a church. But; like anyone who favors the Confederate flag anyone who favors rap is not a racist or a murderer.
ALL LIVES MATTER!!!!! STOP THE HATE!!!!!
Took several days, but now we have the excuses we needed..
Sure Storm Roof was naughty, but just look at that black on black stuff….and rap music, oh my goodness..
…and they want to take our beloved Standard Banner off of my license plate…and off the state capital…and leave the MP3 players alone…where’s the justice….
My prediction above was way too low. Chicago almost took it single -handedly:
CHICAGO (CBS) — Fourth of July weekend shootings left nine people dead — including a 7-year-old boy — and at least 53 others injured from Thursday evening to early Monday.
Seven-year-old Amari Brown was killed in a shooting that also left a 26-year-old woman wounded late Saturday in the Humboldt Park neighborhood.
Amari, who lived in the 500 block of North Drake, was taken to Stroger Hospital where he was pronounced dead at 1:56 a.m., according to the Cook County medical examiner’s office.
Police said Sunday the bullet that fatally wounded 7-year-old Amari Brown on the Fourth of July was meant for his father. Both Amari and the 26-year-old woman were shot in the chest at 11:55 p.m. in the 1100 block of North Harding, police said.
The boy’s father, Antonio Brown, is a ranking gang member with 45 previous arrests….
45 prior arrests? Is that all? I know they really crack down when you get on the 65-75 arrest range.
WTH is going on in this country? Are the wrong people in prison or do we need more prisons?
People who disliked David’s comments simply dislike the truth.