Good to know that Rick Perry doesn’t lose any sleep over whether any of the 234 executions that he has overseen as governor of Texas were of innocent men or women. I mean, there’s quite a bit of evidence that Cameron Todd Willingham was innocent of the crime he was executed for in 2004, but I guess sometimes you have to break some eggs to make a justice omelet. No reflection, not even a real pause.
I suppose I expect that sort of ignorant swagger from the governor of Texas at this point, but it’s actually sickening to hear people at the Republican debate last night applauding a statistic about number of executions in Texas. Even if you support the death penalty, is that the sort of thing worth cheering like it’s a sports score that went your way?
[MSNBC]
This article appears in Sep 8-14, 2011.
I agree. I’m actually more or less pro-capital punishment, and would be even more pro than less if it were carried out a bit more fairly than it is, but even being in favor of it, I can see no good reason for anyone to act joyful when someone is executed. There’s simply something wrong with such a person, like a large part of them has itself died. There’s just no cause for that kind of behavior.
The argument that the death penalty is not handed out “fairly” is not an argument that too many are being killed. It is that not enough scumbags are being killed. You focus on the plight of the low life scum that do the most heinous things to their victims all you want. I will celebrate every time one of those pieces of trash are juiced when I think of the VICTIMS. People are sometimes jailed unjustly-shall we stop jailing people, too?
So you’re saying over 200 murders won’t murder again, yet you dwell on one murder?
Hmmmmmmm….let’s hear you say something that laments the 200….ok?
Else, your premise inhales air in such quantities that it creates a vacuum.
Typical LIBERAL mindset! Help free them and have them babysit, rent a room, take your wife shopping, to the bank! You can always visit them in prison and give them a “Big Hug”!
Love it when you quote MSNBC, the most left wing unreliable source extant. Being a liberal you will have to look up extant. I am a lifelong Republican, for about 70 years, but am not much more thrilled with who the Repubs have running than who the Dems have running. I do not like Perry with all of his holy stuff, and I suspect that the good economy in Texas has absolutely nothing to do with him any more than Clinton can take credit for the good economy during his term. Maybe I am a RINO, but in my opinion all of these churchy holier-than-thou ultra right wing Republicans are the real RINOS.
They have stolen the real Republican Party from us moderates who used to be the backbone. Now, does this mean I am leaning Democrat??? Just look at the absolute jerk who looks upon himself as World Leader that you people elected, a man who refuses to acknowledge the American Flag when it passes in parade while everyone around him is saluting, and you will get the REAL story of who this megalomaniac thinks he is.
I suspect there is a lot that Dan Gibson doesn’t understand.
“People are sometimes jailed unjustly-shall we stop jailing people, too?”
John killing someone and putting someone in prison are not equivalent. If someone is wrongly imprisoned that person can at least continue to try and prove their innocence and if found to be innocent can be released, hopefully receive some kind of compensation, and be given the opportunity to live the remainder of their life in freedom. What can be done for someone wrongly executed?
It’s your right to think that killing a few innocent people in the name of justice is acceptable. But since you’re worried about the victims’ rights, keep in mind, the wrongly accused are victims, too. Moreover, wrongful convictions in capital cases are sadly not as uncommon as you might want to believe.
Since executions were allowed to continue in 1976, 4485 people have been executed or sentenced to death. Of those, 138 were later exonerated. That means 3% of persons sentenced to death since 1976 were innocent. And, of course, those are just the ones who were exonerated.
It’s safe to assume there are many others who are innocent who are either still on death row or have already been executed. Even if we just use the 3% figure, that means 1 of every 33 executions is the murder of an innocent person by the state. If we assume 3% of those already executed (1261) were innocent, it would mean 38 innocent people were executed in the US in the last 35 years. And, again, the real number of innocent persons on death row or who’ve been executed is likely much higher.
While wanting to offer ultimate justice or revenge or whatever you want to call it to victims and their families is a legitimate desire, the question we have to ask is: What’s worse? Denying victims or their families the opportunity to see the guilty put to death or putting to death an innocent person thus creating even more victims while allowing the real culprit(s) to go free?
I’d like to think there’s a space where you can be passionate about justice, but not be thrilled with the government becoming murderers in the process. I respect the opinion of those who believe the death penalty is just form of punishment (even if I disagree), but I think killing anyone, even if they’re guilty of the most heinous crimes, should give us pause as human beings. I’m going to try to be on the side that doesn’t applaud the death of any human being, regardless of party affiliation.
As for people who would suggest that I think people on death row should be freed to babysit my children, you’re just being stupid.
Also, I didn’t actually “quote” MSNBC. They aired the debate, so I used a clip from their broadcast. Crazed liberal network, hosting 90 minutes of Republicans talking!
Dan Gibson heard a number (234)— Dan Gibson did not hear the protecting of Texas Citizens that are victimized, Dan Gibson did not hear the explaination. — it’s pretty simple don’t be a criminal and you won’t get put to death.
These are the same people that don’t think it’s a problem to auction off the same type of gun used in a failed assassination attempt of a local Congresswoman. Why wouldn’t they cheer capital punishment?
As opposed to supporting a ‘lifer’ for 50 plus years, it’s cost effective.
so basically these criminals who were “wrongly” executed went through their entire bag of appeals and were not able to be exonerated, yet once they were executed suddenly they are found totally innocent of their crime, sorry, i call shenanigans. i got a crazy idea, how about not being a criminal and actually be a productive member of society instead of blaming everyone else for your life mistakes.
DBCOOK: A number of government institutions have found that trying death penalty cases is significantly more expensive than the same crimes tried as life-in-prison penalties. Not that costs should be factored into what’s just, but so be it [http://www.ccfaj.org/rr-dp-official.html].
Might_Makes_Right: Tell that to Ray Krone.
well that’s a tough break, but obviously through his appeals and the length of time these cases take he was released through DNA evidence. i’m not saying the system is perfect (casey anthony comes to mind), but it’s the system we have. criminals are way too often treated as the victims, i have family and friends who work in corrections, the way prisoners are treated as opposed to the way officers are treated makes me sick.
Might_Makes_Right, no one is saying people convicted of capital offenses shouldn’t be punished. I mean, despite your implication that it’s better to be in prison than work in one (pure BS, by the way), life in prison without parole isn’t exactly a vacation.
Moreover, many of the cases where death row inmates were exonerated were cases where there was overwhelming evidence of police and/or prosecutor misconduct such as hiding evidence that would prove the accused’s innocence or cast serious doubt on the prosecution’s case, coercing false statements from witnesses or false confessions from suspects, offering witnesses generous plea deals or immunity to implicate the suspect, etc.
There’s a lot of pressure on police and prosecutors to quickly arrest and prosecute persons convicted of capital offenses. So, it’s not all that surprising that police and prosecutors sometimes choose to cut corners or engage in outright fraud to obtain a quick conviction. And once they’ve cheated to get a conviction they’ll have plenty of incentive to cover it up. The appeals process is worthless when there’s no evidence left to prove your innocence and the only people who could testify on your behalf are the same people who framed you.
“the system is [sic] perfect but it’s the system we have”?? Well, yeah, and that’s the problem and why some people want to change it.
To those who applaud when someone is executed: ever hear of the commandment “Thou Shalt Not Kill”?
It’s not liberal or conservative, it’s called moralitiy.
234? This guy’s a rank amateur. You want me to applaud your body count? Call me when you’re doing North Korea numbers, creampuff. Pretty sure I can speak for all of my fellow Republicans when I say that bush league grandstanding like this is the reason we’re writing in Kim Jong-Il in 2012.
I got no issue with executions in Texas or anywhere. We need to get this trash taken out, as soon as possible, and Texas leads the way.
Sorry but on this issue , Im with the republicans. And that commandment was “already broken” by these murderers – we didnt kill them – they got “JUSTIFIED.”
Let JUSTIFICATION continue, full steam ahead.
all of you anti death penalty people including msnbc are a bunch of hipocrits! how many abortions happen in this country? and that is justified?
The Willingham case is more an example of a major problem with inaccurate arson investigations in the Texas justice system.
It also is a case of Governor Perry failing to do his duty and issue a 30 day stay of execution when last minute exculpatory evidence became available. The state convicted Willingham of murder by arson based on 2 arson investigators with high school degrees and minimal formal training in arson.
Along comes Ph.D. Chemist, Gerald Hurst, who rebuts every single conclusion in their testimony and shows that the state actually has no physical evidence of arson based on modern scientific arson analysis, and Perry ignores it.
Perry should have at least granted the 30 day stay of execution and had other arson experts confirm Hurst’s report.
The whole reason for the governor to have the power to issue a 30 day stay is for cases like Willingham’s when exculpatory evidence becomes available at the last minute.
Perry blew it and has since tried to cover up his mistake by firing members of the Texas Forensics Science Commission to derail their investigation of the Willingham case.
But libs are ok with Aborting a truly innocent human.
Justifiable homicide is still homicide. You can spin it anyway you want to, but the death penalty is not cost-effective nor has it proven to be a deterrent to murder, since many murderers feel they are justified in what they are doing. Perry justifies 234 murders by saying it is popular among Texans? He also claims to be a Christian?
people – stick to the point of this point. he’s not arguing pro/con death penalty. he’s saying that he finds it offensive that people cheer for it like that. you think the victims families get up and clap and hoot and holler with joy when the criminal is executed? there is no joy in this if you are involved with either the victims family or the family of the criminal.
good god, pay attention to what is actually being said before you rant.
I don’t understand (some) Democrats – You worry about a couple hundred criminals that are executed for heinous crimes, but celebrate the “right” of women to executed tens of thousands of babies every year. The babies don’t get appeals, second chances, etc. You infant murderers!
seriously, zonajim? READ THE ARTICLE! 1. no mention of abortion in it. 2. women who chose to have an abortion (it is legal, you know) don’t cheer it and celebrate it, and that kind of behavior is the crux of what is being criticized here. it’s a tough decision that some 3rd party has no right to judge.
in closing, go **** (make love to) yourself, and then see if YOU want to carry the resulting fetus to term.
So your not condeming the politician just the audience, and for those who said that victims families wouldn’t clap and cheer for the murderer of their family….had it not been reverence for their dead loved ones they would be cheering and clapping.
moyla75 – i’m not sure that’s true. i’ve never been involved in a case where a family member was a victim of a crime that resulted in the death penalty. but i think those close to the situation have way more measured, complicated feelings about this than 3rd parties who are horrified by the crime and simply glad to see the sucker fry. i have seen interviews with families of victims who are very much ambivalent about the execution of the perp.
but your point about ‘respect for their dead loved ones’ is exactly my point – THEY (the deceased) are the reason not to celebrate more death. it is legal, so be it. i just think the respect thing ought to be remembered when considering the issue.
Interesting that pro-capital punishment people think that those who are against it want killers walking the streets. “All or nothing” is not the argument. Simply put, capital punishment is a broken system. It’s costly, does nothing to deter crime and flawed.
Statistically, VERY FEW people accused of murder face the death penalty. So I guess all the other murder victims’ survivors don’t count. And, there are lots of people who have lost loved ones to murder who DON’T want the killer on death row. Me included.
NOTE: A Texas governor can only commute a death sentence if the 7-member Texas Board of Pardons and Paroles makes a favorable recommendation of clemency. Otherwise, a governor could issue a 1-time 30-day stay of execution for a condemned inmate. In the 230 executions carried out thus far under Rick Perry, the Texas Board of Pardons and Paroles has recommended clemency for a condemned inmate only 1 time, by a 6-1 vote for Kelsey Patterson; Gov. Perry, who is not bound to follow a clemency recommendation, rejected it and Patterson was put to death.
Perry will be the next president because he realizes California,Texas And Florida are Latino states now.When he spoke at the La Raza assembly I knew we had a leader for Mexicans.He has created more jobs for us than any other governor in Texas.Amehica will learn Spanish!Press 2 for English ****.
Well, would just like to add…the man who made the comment and the people who applauded him say Jesus Christ…the ultimate forgiver, is their Lord and Savior. If only they were more like him.
You don’t understand SOME Republicans. And obviously don’t approve of SOME. Do you understand and approve of ALL Democrats? That would certainly be an interesting follow-up article, unless it’s ONLY Republicans that you don’t approve of.
Do not confuse the Republican Party with the collection of nuts gathered in the Tea Party bowl.
If your paying attention the Petit murder trial in Connecticut, the killers burned the children alive, raped the mom and killer her, beat the dad with baseball bats.
Liberal need to learn to cheer when people like this die.
I’m not going to cheer when anyone takes the life of another. Whether it be an individual or a state that pulls the trigger or injects the poison makes no difference. In either case it is a crime against humanity and more people will suffer. I would prefer to see justice done, not a revenge killing.
It is wrong to kill. It’s wrong when a criminal does it. It’s wrong when the State does it. It’s not justice. It’s vengeance. If that’s what you want, fine. But don’t pretend it’s anything else.