- It appears that this YouTube clip is of Jared Loughner, in custody for the shooting at Safeway this morning.
My son is 9 years old, so when I heard from UMC’s Dr. Peter Rhee that a child of the same age is among the confirmed dead from the shooting at Safeway on Ina and Oracle roads, this whole event became even harder to take. I try to take my son to events where politicians appear to try to expose him to newsmakers and the world around him, and while we’re on the other side of town from today’s shooting, what separates my family from being involved in something like this is that this Safeway was within walking distance of Loughner’s family’s house, and not mine. It’s a little tough to process.
I guess you want to blame a movement or radical belief for what happened, so that there’s someone to blame bigger than just one shooter or that the madness makes a little sense, but after poring over the digital remnants left behind by Jared Loughner across the Internet, the one thing I feel like I can say about the 22 year old is that he seems to be someone desperately needing mental health care.
There are certainly themes that run through his videos and postings: the unconstitutionality of various institutions (including Pima Community College), remarks about “rare birds” and the use of language that would imply that Loughner didn’t expect to be around for long (his last Myspace post, from this morning, was “Goodbye friends”), but otherwise, it’s impossible to make sense of most of it.
For example, here’s a selection of what Loughner left on someone’s MySpace page:
If there’s no flag in the constitution then the flag in the film is unknown.
There’s no flag in the constitution.
Therefore, the flag in the film is unknown.
Burn every new and old flag that you see.
Burn your flag!
I bet you can imagine this in your mind with a faster speed.
Watch this protest in reverse!
Ask the local police; “What’s your illegal activity on duty?”.
If you protest the government then there’s a new government from protesting.
There’s not a new government from protesting.
Thus, you aren’t protesting the government.
There’s something important in this video: There’s no communication to anyone in this location.
You shouldn’t be afraid of the stars.
There’s a new bird on my right shoulder. The beak is two feet and lime green. The rarest bird on earth, there’s no feathers, but small grey scales all over the body. It’s with one large red eye with a light blue iris. The bird feet are the same as a woodpecker. This new bird and there’s only one, the gender is not female or male. The wings of this bird are beautiful; 3 feet wide with the shape of a bald eagle that you could die for. If you can see this bird then you will understand. You think this bird is able to chat about a government?
I want you to imagine a comet or meteoroid coming through the atmosphere.
That was left 77 days ago, but what are you supposed to make of that?
The YouTube clips on his channel are just as wildly confusing. If you can understand what on Earth this means, you’re a step ahead of me:
Hello, my name is Jared Lee Loughner.
This video is my introduction to you! My favorite activity is conscience dreaming; the greatest inspiration for my political business information. Some of you don’t dream — sadly.
Firstly, the current government officials are in power for their currency, but I’m informing you for your new currency! If you’re treasuerer of a new money system, then you’re responsible for the distributing of a new currency. We now know — the treasurer for a new money system, is the distributor of the new currency. As a result, the people approve a new money system which is promising new information that’s accurate, and we truly believe in a new currency. Above all, you have your new currency, listener?
Secondly, my hope – is for you to be literate! If you’re literate in English grammar, then you comprehend English grammar. The majority of poeple, who reside in District 8, are illiterate — hilarious. I don’t control your English grammar structure, but you control your English grammar structure.
Thirdly, I know who’s listening: Government Officials, and the People. Nearly all the people, who don’t know this accurate information of a new currency, aren’t aware of mind control and brainwash methods. If I have my civil rights, then this message wouldn’t have happen.
In conclusion, my ambition – is for informing literate dreamers about a new currency; in a few days, you know I’m conscience dreaming! Thank you!
The other recent video is longer and maybe a little more distressing, in retrospect, especially considering that he refers to them as his “final thoughts”:
My Final Thoughts: Jared Lee Loughner!
Most people, who read this text, forget in the next 2 second!
The population of dreamers in the United States of America is less than 5%!
If 987,123,478,961,876,341,234,098,601,978,618 is the year in B.C.E. then the previous year is 987,123,478,961,876,341,234,098,601,978,619 B.C.E.
987,123,478,961,876,341,234,098,601,978,618 is the year in B.C.E.
Therefore, the previous year of 987,123,478,961,876,341,234,098,601,978,619 B.C.E.
If B.C.E. years are unable to start then A.D.E. years are unable to begin.
B.C.E. years are unable to start.
Thus, A.D.E. years are unable to begin.
If A.D.E. is endless in year then the years in A.D.E. don’t cease.
A.D.E. is endless in year.
Therefore, the years in A.D.E. don’t cease.
If I teach a mentally capable 8 year old for 20 consecutive minutes to replace an alphabet letter with a new letter and pronunciation then the mentally capable 8 year old writes and pronounces the new letter and pronunciation that’s replacing an alphabet letter in 20 consecutive minutes.
I teach a mentally capable 8 year old for 20 consecutive minutes to replace an alphabet letter with a new letter and pronunciation.
Thus, the mentally capable 8 year old writes and pronounces the new letter and pronunciation that replaces an alphabet letter in 20 consecutive minutes.
Every human who’s mentally capable is always able to be treasurer of their new currency.
If you create one new currency then you’re able to create a second new currency.
If you’re able to create second new currency then you’re able to create third new currency.
You create one new currency.
Thus, you’re able to create a third new currency.
You’re a treasurer for a new currency, listener?
You create and distribute your new currency, listener?
You don’t allow the government to control your grammar structure, listener?
If you create one new language then you’re able to create a second new language.
If you’re able to create a second new language then you’re able to create a third new language.
You create one new language.
Thus, you’re able to create a third new language.
All humans are in need of sleep.
Jared Loughner is a human.
Hence, Jared Loughner is in need of sleep.
Sleepwalking
If I define sleepwalking then sleepwalking is the act or state of walking, eating, or performing other motor acts while asleep, of which one is unaware upon awakening.
I define sleepwalking.
Thus, sleepwalking is the act or state of walking, eating, or performing other motor acts while asleep, of which one is unaware upon awakening.
I’m a sleepwalker – who turns off the alarm clock.
All conscience dreaming at this moment is asleep.
Jared Loughner is conscience dreaming at this moment.
Thus, Jared Loughner is asleep.
Terrorist
If I define terrorist then a terrorist is a person who employs terror or terrorism, especially as a political weapon.
I define terrorist.
This, a terrorist is a person who employs terror or terrorism, especially as a political weapon.
If you call me a terrorist then the argument to call me a terrorist is Ad hominem.
You call me a terrorist.
Thus, the argument to call me a terrorist is Ad hominem.
Every United States Military recruit at MEPS in Phoenis is receiving one mini bible before the tests.
Jared Loughner is a United States Military recruit at MEPS in Phoenix.
Therefore, Jared Loughner is receiving one mini bible before the tests.
I didn’t write a belief on my Army application, and the recruiter wrote on the application; None.
The majority of citizens in the United States of America have never read the United States of America’s Constitution.
You don’t have to accept the federalist laws.
Nonetheless, read the United States of America’s Constituion to apprehend all of the current treasonous laws.
You’re literate, listener?
If the property owners and government officials are no longer in ownership of their land and laws from a revolution then the revolutionary’s from the revolution are in control of the land and laws.
The property owners and government officials are no longer in ownership of their land and laws from a revolution.
Thus, the revolutionary’s from the revolution are in control of the land and laws.
In conclusion, reading the second United States Constition, I can’t trust the current government because of the ratifications: The government is implying mind control and brainwash on the people by controlling grammar.
No! I won’t pay debt with a currency that’s not backed by gold and silver!
No! I won’t trust in God!
What’s government if words don’t have meaning?
Another video, favorited by Loughner, uses “Let The Bodies Hit The Floor” by Drowning Pool as a soundtrack to the burning of an American flag in the desert by a hooded, masked man wearing what appears to be pants made of black garbage bags.
His MySpace page featured a photo of a Glock pistol placed on an American History textbook and listed his favorite books as “Animal Farm, Brave New World, The Wizard Of OZ, Aesop Fables, The Odyssey, Alice Adventures Into Wonderland, Fahrenheit 451, Peter Pan, To Kill A Mockingbird, We The Living, Phantom Toll Booth, One Flew Over The Cuckoo’s Nest, Pulp,Through The Looking Glass, The Communist Manifesto, Siddhartha, The Old Man And The Sea, Gulliver’s Travels, Mein Kampf, The Republic, and Meno”, a mess of books with wildly different viewpoints.
There’s nothing you can attach philosophically this guy right now, but it seems he had destructive thoughts on his mind for sometime. There’s a smiling photo of Loughner at the Star as a volunteer at the Tucson Festival of Books about a year ago. That seems to be a far, far different young man than the one from most recent months, and a million miles away from the gunman who walked to Safeway today.
This article appears in Jan 6-12, 2011.
Dude it’s “poring over,” not “pouring through.” Unless you were actually spilling juice on what you were researching.
The guy clearly was suffering from schizophrenia. That kind of disorganised ranting and bizarre coining of words is classic. Hope the guy gets some proper diagnosis and not just more political attacks when he’s clearly off his rocker.
I thought crazy people were not allowed to purchase or own weapons.
Who sold this nut, this insane person, a gun? Why was he not incarcerated?
The talking heads will only look into the effect, not the cause.
There is no comprehensive mental background check for firearms. A complete travesty that was never fixed even after the Virginia Tech massacre almost 3 years ago.
Paranoid schizophrenia.
The state of hate allows anyone who wants a gun to buy a gun…no rules here.
Bongo: I apologize for my minor spelling error on a troubling day. Thanks for catching it.
he def. needed or needs help poor fellow, and who sold him a gun, who says it had to be legally sold JWA??? some how I have to feel a bit of sympathy for him, I feel for those killed too and hurt…this country is def. on the downswing, everyone is feeling disinfranchised, robbed of their rights, scrambling for what little is left(remember the movie Mad Max)oh, am I rambling…scary isn’t it?
@just wandering around – It is easy to buy a firearm in Arizona. I own one and my purchase was easy. Filled a paperwork, waiting 15 minutes and that was it. You can also carry a concealed weapon without a permit now, except in places were alcoholic beverages are served, meaning no bars, stadiums, restaurants, clubs… I know I have my business in order and even if a couple people might have thought I was nuts at one time or other, I know I am not deranged to the point of killing anyone, except maybe in self defense or the defense of others. But never in my process of purchasing a weapon did I talk to a shrink or had any forced lessons as they do in most countries that allow firearms possession. That’s what bothered me. Not that I personally was able to obtain a weapon but that insane individuals as this one can.
If the posts are his (at the Huff. Post this a.m. some question about that arose) then he’s pretty clearly deranged.
That doesn’t excuse Sarah Palin from publishing a “map” of her political targets embellished with crosshairs and then mounting a celebratory “target practice” event as a publicity gimmick. When you incite people to violence, even if you pretend it’s tongue-in-cheek violence, some unhinged folks will act on it.
Dare one say it? If our country provided decent health care to its citizens, this might not have happened.
@just wandering around – This year, AZ governor signed into law a bill to allow people to carry concealed weapons WITHOUT a permit.
Also news reports have stated that the Loughner home is five miles from the supermarket, but rather a hike re your comment about walking distance.
Sad. This guy is mentally ill, and the toxic political environment in the US has certainly contributed to this tragedy.
Time to tone it down Beck, Palin, et al.
A Tucson tea party–affiliated group was responsible for spreading the rumor that Obama had used mind control on the American people: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6nxHEPGO3g
The original article has since been removed, but it’s also discussed here: http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=77…
Go figure.
With all this talk about Beck and Palin who would have imagined this? – one of the shooter’s friends remembers him as a quite liberal, left winger.. http://twitter.com/caitieparker I really think there is more to this story than politics, kids…
@OutOf – what difference does that make? Murder is still against the law and it still happens.. What would a law that prohibited concealed carry prevented today?
To “just wandering around”… who said he bought the pistol legally? Do you know something the police don’t know yet?
I think we will find out he is on Ritalin and where are his PARENTS????
How about them 2nd amendment rights.
Is this what you self richeous people had in mind.
No, people like that are never incarcerated until *after* they murder a few innocents. So called “medical authorities” and families alike are loath to admit there is a problem they cannot deal with and besides, institutional care is very expensive! Drugs are the answer! Too bad the schitzos hate to take them, and so its only a matter of time before the next horrific event. Of course there will be an uproar to prevent the sale of guns, etc. as if that would solve the problem. I don’t think Beck has ever promoted any kind of violence, or even the idea that government is corrupt – in his railings against the so called “progressive socialist agenda etc.”
Laurie Dann committed her killing spree long before Palin, Beck, etc. were known. In short, don’t shift blame to third parties. The nut with the gun (Jerod) is the ONLY one to blame for today’s murderous rampage. There are undiagnosed mentally ill people in this country who currently possess firearms. That’s why it’s imperative that the rest of us who are sane are able to protect ourselves and our loved ones while in public through lawful carry of firearms. My prayers go out to all the families who are suffering today because of the acts of a lunatic. Peace.
For anyone interested in trying to understand this (to the extent that it’s possible), you need to read Eric Hoffer’s “The True Believer.” It’s arguably the most cogent explanation of the psychology of fanaticism ever written.
It’s better than the prose stylings of Deepak Chopra. If there’s anything more than the impressionistic pseudo-syllogism in the bag of tricks, I could see this stuff selling OK packaged as a duodecimo in “crunchy” venues. Maybe a line of postcards.
He still used ‘Myspace?’
I think that might be the very definition of ‘crazy’ in the DSM-IV.
I am so pleased to see most of the people on this blog realize and understand this guy was severely and chronically mentally ill with looks like classic schizophrenia as most of you already stated. WHY DON’T THESE STUPID POLITICIANS… MCCAIN, THE AZ GOVERNOR ADDRESS THIS PROBLEM INSTEAD OF TALKING ABOUT THE REVENGE THEY’RE GOING TO INSURE THE INSANE SHOOTER GETS????
You people in Arizona think you want to be free from government. This is what
happens when you let any and all persons think they are free from government. I think maybe we need more government. Goverment has a function.
I agree with several other comments here…I think it is highly likely that this young man was suffering from schizophrenia. His rantings have several red flags that go along with this: 1) paranoid ideas about brainwashing and mind control 2) repeating ideas over and over (perseveration) 3) possibly hallucinations – what he refers to as “conscience dreaming”. He may have been seeing things and attributes them to dreaming rather than hallucinations. His rantings don’t make logical sense but that is to be expected.
The most recent commenter, OutOfPatience, made excellent points. The shooter seems to have been a schizophrenic in the peak of a psychotic episode, so was suggestible to the outrageous remarks of Palin, Limbaugh et.al. that political opponents needed “killing”. If there is a Hell, they’ll rot there for eternity for what they did. We need to remember Palin’s behavior when she attempts to run for President.
And if unemployed young people and their parents had good mental health care available to them at an affordable price, this guy might have been medicated and not a danger to others or himself. But I guess that would be too “liberal” for many of us.
It’s also time to rethink how necessary a real waiting period is during a gun purchase for the purpose of checking out the buyer’s mental health. Though most schizophrenics don’t commit violence, it is all too possible for them not to have adequate medication and use guns irrationally if they have access. Guns make killing people too easy for them to be available to people with minimal control of their impulses, like children and schizophrenics. That is one thing we could change.
@logic101:
We need more guns in the hands of the sane to stop the acts of the insane?
How often does that work out? Did some sane person pull a gun and stop this lunatic?
And what if they had? Who’s to say someone else might not have then thought that person was part of the killing, and then pulled their gun?
The maths is simple…
More guns = more deaths.
Don’t believe me? Try looking at some statistics on gun-related deaths.
Flood the country with Aliens and drive up our debt to the Federal Reserve until 10-15 percent are out of work, esp. young and inexperienced people. Then supersaturate the culture with materialist entertainment and 4,000 ad’s per day… Then wonder why this type of thing happens.
We live in a sick, shallow culture and the religious nonsense does’t pacify people who think scientifically..
I say kill this waste of space and be done with it, but you can bet the media will work to overexpose and normalize his behavior…
Having read some of what the alleged shooter posted on the Internet, I believe he’s insane. However, the right wing must take some responsibility for this atrocity. Rhetoric which calls for violence by words or symbols (e.g., rifle sights in ads), is irresponsible at best. It can be misinterpreted by the unstable and cause irreparable harm. I’m a baby boomer who’s lived through far too many assassinations and you bet your boots I’m for gun control – and proud. All the politicians’ expressions of sympathy regarding this tragedy are very nice but, when will they themselves, (especially those pols who encourage and benefit from right wing propaganda), tone it down? To quote a hymn written in 1955: “Let there be peace on earth and let it begin with me.”
Psychological testing before purchasing an assault weapon. This kid obviously suffering from mental illness. I agree with the person above that wrote: ” the toxic political environment in the US has certainly contributed to this tragedy”.
My prayer goes out to all the families of the slain and injured.
@ jb:
Cite your statistics. I read the FBI statistics on all gun crimes and their findings are what I base my position on. Not some anti-gun group or the NRA. Peace.
I wonder if he drove his car into that crowd whether people would be opining as to who sold him that car and whether there should be mental health screens to purchase cars.
Crazy people with intent to kill will find a way. Get a clue.
I live in Arizona. The laws out here are ridiculous. There are zero gun laws. Anyone can get and conceal a weapon. Even nut bags like this.
@ LastHonestPerson – well said. I completely agree with you. I cannot understand what is wrong with some of these right-wingers, that say this healthcare bill is evil, and don’t see any problem with anyone owning a gun. My mother has cancer and lost her job, then her healthcare, she was unable to afford any healthcare under the old system, since they discriminate against pre-existing conditions. Obama tried to remove pre-existing conditions from insurance premiums completely, but that was turned down by republicans in the senate. He was only able to remove pre-existing conditions for children, but it’s a start. Republicans are so blind-sided on the importance of government intervention and regulation; they want to deregulate everything which led to this whole financial crisis, Enron…and a whole load of problems.
It’s obvious “Professor Anonymus” (a few comments down) is unaware of being in lock step with the style of thinking that leads to these sorts of tragedies in the first place.
Maybe whoever sold him the automatic weapon should have Googled him first.
Don’t ever ever blame and point the finger at a Mexican again. Let this be stoned in the memories of all the bigot Americans that this was a white kid who was sick in the head, probably supported the tea party and was probably fueled with the hatred that is spawned from conservative politicians like the rat shit governor from Arizona, Sarah Succubus Palin, Glen Beck, Rush Limbaugh, and other pieces of garbage that Make America look like the worst of the human race. Congratulations guys.. all the poison you’ve spewed onto ignorant, psychotic American’s backfired and you are to blame. I hope this eats at you forever so you can see what you have turned this country into. Unfortunately alot of the people in this country need to seriously do some soul searching as the sheriff said.
Bongo, you’re seriously worried about grammar right now? Wow. Give Dan a break, jeez.
I disagree with the conclusion people have jumped to that he is mentally ill.
“New currency” appears to be a reference to the idea that without currency, governments have no power. I recommend watching Zeitgeist Addendum.
By the way prayer does nothing, it’s a waste of time. Prayer is for crazy people.
I CLEARLY KNOW what this guy is trying to do — ESTABLISH HIMSELF as MENTALLY INSANE. ANY EASY WAY TO getaway even with the worst crimes. Do weird things, write things that make him look like a mentally ill creature.
A former college friend of mine suddenly and without warning “came down” with paranoid schizophrenia in her late 30’s. It got so bad the police had to get involved; prior to this she had no police record whatsoever.
Even then, her parents were in denial and refused to get her the treatment she so desperately needed though they could easily have afforded it (sadly she later committed suicide). After all, it couldn’t be possible that their loving daughter had “gone crazy”!
We still have a long ways to go when it comes to recognizing and dealing with mental illness. My heart goes out to the victims, the shooter, and their families.
As a social worker, my “off the cuff” assessment based on available information is that this sounds like classic schizophrenic behavior. Some person in this young man’s life knew something was “odd” about his behavior but most likely could not persuade him to seek help. Probably not too many services even available with the state of mental health services in this country.
Sitting here in California watching this story unfold, I think about how sad ir is for the victims and their families. I send my prayers to them and to Arizona. This is a sad day that will remain a stain in the history books.
What occurred today in Tucson is a tragedy.
There are some pretty huge flaws in our system (AZ and the US) in regard to mental health. Unless a person is under court ordered treatment they cannot be forced to take medication. Even then the system is so overburdened that keeping up with every client is difficult at best. It is quite taxing to get an adult into ‘the system’ without either filing a motion with the court or an arrest.
As far as firearms laws in AZ, they are what they are. The Second Amendment is upheld in Arizona in a way that is in line with the Constitution. IMHO, we are doing it right. (Firearms laws are one of the very few upsides to living in AZ)
Please don’t bother to drone on about how we should disarm the people, add a waiting period, or legislate firearms out of the hands of the people. Whatever you may have to say, that is one of the few issues where my stance is firm, founded in fact and does NOT waver.
I used to own a firearms business. Waiting periods don’t change anything. Disarming law abiding citizens does not change anything. Even legislation does not change anything….for criminals.
Any person who is either ill or hell bent on causing violence will find a way.
Please refrain from using the term ‘assault weapon’ or ‘automatic weapon’. Would you feel less assaulted if you were shot with a .22? I think not. Do you have any idea what an ‘automatic weapon’ is? If you are speaking of a Class III weapon, they ARE regulated and taxed (heavily). If you are speaking of the Glock that was reported in the news, it was most likely a semi-automatic weapon. Full-auto Glocks are more of a fun at the range thing than an actual take out about town weapon. They are also pretty rare.
This young man obviously needs help. His parents aren’t really an issue as he is 22 years old. An adult. If his parents have contributed to his going so astray I would think that it will come to light. They are still not responsible for their child’s actions (morally perhaps? hard to say.)
My heart goes out to the families who have been affected by this horrible incident.
I hope that folks can find a way to focus on the REAL issues at hand and not look for ways to incite more discord on political issues. I’m pretty sure we have quite enough of that already.
He was sane enough to say good bye to his friends and tell them not to be mad at him. Screw INSANE! He planned this, wrote about it, made a decision to go to this store and put a gun to the head of 19 people. I hope he is found GUILTY!!!!! You don’t get to plea crazy when you created a plan and carried it out. Give me a break. Crazy people don’t ask for forgiveness and in multiple places. He knew what he was doing, and yes people can have an opinion, but he left his house and knew EXACTLY what he was doing! Anyone that says different is full of C@#$!!!!!!!!! Thank God Gabby is alive!!!!
As a gentleman from the SCLC demonstrated on Olbermann tonight, each of the “insanities” expressed on the websites has its origins in one or several far-right theories.
went through them one by one with historical attributions to the creators of these theories and how they have been elaborated over the years.
if you think Loughner was insane, then you must believe that the whole right wing is crazy in some regard and the far right wing crazy in every aspect. And you would be right.
And it’s responsible as much as its poor pawn for today’s shooting.
By the way, the Pima County Fairgrounds has rented itself out for Crossroads of the West, a gun show chased out of California when LA. County supervisors decided it was inciting violence and carelessly permitting sale of weapons to criminals and suspected drug gangs.
It opens on January 14. There’s still time for the Pima Fairgrounds Commission to withdraw its invitation to Crossroads. Its appearance here is neither timely nor honorable.
Oh my goodness! Of course, people will start to blame Sarah Palin, Beck, Limbaugh, and other conservatives, including the Tea Party for this shooting. This shooting is on Loughner, PURE AND SIMPLE. If it weren’t for one reason, it would be another. You simply can NOT blame anyone but the shooter for the shooting. He would have found his excuse, no matter what. In fact, he was ANTI conservative–ANTI Republican. Even HE did not use the right as his excuse. Please do not start this blame game. Yes, Sarah Palin’s committee who put the “political” (not literal) targets on those they wanted defeated in the election, but they took it down, wisely. Loughner never even mentioned that in any of his posts, that have been found so far. Blame him. Do NOT blame anyone but Loughner. PLEASE. Use common sense. Do not inflame people more.
Olbermann is always bragging how superior he is in grammar and being literate, seems alot like Loughner did.
Maybe that is who the sheriff was talking about.
Also from what I read
Loughner seems to use “currency” as his ideas / beliefs
not as money
Everyone: Please tone it down. Be respectful; be civil. If you want to be rude or rant aimelessly, go elsewhere. Thanks.
All of you blaming the conservative or “right wing” politicians instead of the shooter, are doing just what you accuse the “right wingers” of doing. You are using insult, rhetoric, and inflammatory language, yet you blame conservatives for doing just that.
All of you stating that Loughner is insane, schizophrenic, etc., unless you are 1) a medical doctor with a licence legally entitling you to diagnose such a condition, and 2) treated Mr. Loughner, by LAW, you are practicing medicine without a licence. You may state that “in my opinion…” but you may not diagnose. Those that suggest Loughner perhaps may have used bizarre rantings in his online posts, to give him an “insanity” alibi, may be on target–at least it’s a thought. However, until he is examined by those with the legal and medical where-withall to determine his mind-set, we won’t know for certain, and maybe not even then.
I am sick and tired of people blaming conservatives, Christian, or otherwise, for all the ills of the world, including this shooting. Don’t give this young nutcase an excuse. He is the sole person responsible. He WAS not a conservative, nor a tea partier, as someone else suggested without doing the proper research. He ranted against them!! And look at his favorite book list–including Mein Kampf. That does not suggest conservatism, but instead Marxism–Progressivism. PLEASE–do your research before you unfairly accuse and inflame. Let calmer heads prevail.
I am now a
Gun Toting Liberal
Proud Field Negress
I am absolutely sick of people from both political parties trying to pin this incident on each other, especially when evidence seems to indicate that this was the action of one mentally unstable individual, who furthermore did not seem to have a preference for either political party. Here before us we have an opportunity for Democrats and Republicans to unite, at least briefly, and offer our hopes that Congresswoman Gifford makes a full recovery, and what are people doing? Taking cheap shots at each other using unfounded “facts”, wild accusations, and petty name-calling.
Everyone, put aside your political opinions for a millisecond and have a moment of silence for the people who were senselessly killed or injured in today’s tragedy. We don’t need to throw around more hate here. There’s been enough damage done.
Ugly American–works for me!!
Research the mentally ill. I am from NY where years ago there were 9000 patients in a Psychiatric hospital near my house. There were many psychiatric hospitals in the area just outside NYC but in the 1960’s we put them all out on the streets without having any resources to help them. Our jails are filled with mentally ill now. The politicians were worried about taking their liberty away. This young man seems schizophrenic. That disease strikes in late adolescence. He should have been hospitalized. I pray for the families and victims.
Mesaguy. I find it ironic that you target Palin. (you simply gave yourself away as biased and brain washed quoting the same verbal diarhea a.k.a media spin.) Mesaguy, have you heard the lyrics in music over the last decade, particularly urban music that advocates murdering police, beating women, and the like? But I suppose that is okay in your book as long as lies. hatred, and darkness come from left of center talking heads and elite types. But even with low life lyrics and such, there is something called a dial that you can turn to another station–or hit the off button. You can turn a page in a book or click off an ad or posting you don’t like or agree with. That’s what sane folks do. But this guy was not in his right mind. One key thing you neglect to point out is that he had no faith. Look at his comment about God. No faith. No hope. And a troubled mind. Terrible combination. Sad how this man was showing signs of a mental sickness–but where was everyone? If he had a compound fracture and his bone was sticking out of his arm, someone would get him help or give him help. Yet no one wants to help someone whose brain is literally broken. (same can be said for spirit and soul). Too many stigmas are attached to mental illness and addictions. These are diseases that when left unchecked result in tragic outcomes. And innocent people get caught in the middle along with loved ones. My heart goes out to all of them tonight. We must pay attention. Be aware of the signs/symptoms of mental illness and depression. Be engaged. Knowledge is power to help prevent the next tragedy.
Good point, doubled1111
Maggiemay (love that song by the way), I recall when Geraldo Rivera became famous for his expose on the mistreatment of people at the Willowbrook mental hospital. I believe this was about the same time that patients were released and wound up on the streets of NY. Sadly, one of my relatives had Schizophrenia. He was a good looking and vibrant young man–and was, by all accounts, “fine”, up until his early 20s. It was as if a switch was turned in the opposite direction in his mind. He was in and out of Greystone. As a child, I recall he was on a lot of medication. He would say odd things and wouldn’t quite remember our names. Smoked like a chimney. If he went off his meds, he became violent and was readmitted. Family watched over him as best as possible back in the day. He passed away nearly 20 years ago of a heart attack. May he rest in peace.
well done. thank you.
ask yourself.. do you know ANY kid in this day and age that has read all those books??? his myspace was taken down but the disinformation you tube page (that keeps stating his name all over it to ‘prove’ it is his) stays up and is allowed to spread
wake up — all those vids are hogwash with a few memes thrown in to get the masses in a furor
this is way bigger than jared.. keep your mind open on this one..
JPX. Unfortunately, you used this tragedy to spew your hatred for “the right wing”. You have no idea about the facts regarding illegal aliens do you? Note that more than one third of the federal prison is comprised of illegal aliens–and often due to violent crimes that are perpetuated against your fellow American citizens. So please get off your high horse especially since you don’t even know how to saddle one. In general, illegal immigration must end. I personally decided to get a carrying permit and attend school after 5 illegal alien men came to one of my rental properties and sat down on my front porch without any intentions of leaving until I got my Jersey up and told them to go or I would call the authorities. I am a women. I was by myself. It was perhaps one of the scariest moments. But that moment also reminded me that our elected officials (both parties) have failed us. Our forefathers were brilliant men. I am so glad we have the second amendment right to protect myself. If we lose this one, we will lose the first amendment, too. I applaud Governor Brewer! She is finally enforcing the law. Unlike the ones on capitol hill. But we should really reserve this conversation for a post that focuses on the topic of illegal immigration.
This guy isn’t psychotic. You just have to try and understand his viewpoints. He was frustrated with corrupt government and inadequate education – viewpoints that deserve consideration. But he also justified what he did today somehow, probably because he thought he was inspiring positive change through force in an ineffective and corrupt government. Anyway, if we dismiss his rants as psychotic, then we excuse his knowingly criminal behavior.
I’m gonna take a step outside the box here and say that “conscience dreaming” is his term for “lucid dreaming.” Lucid dreaming is where someone is aware that they are dreaming. Maybe he felt like he was living in a dream, because of the distaste that he had for the current state of the USA and its political parties. Often times while lucid dreaming people are able to ‘control’ their environment and claim to dream of superpowers or doing things that they would not be able to “normally” do in “real” life. He’s a ‘sleepwalker who doesn’t turn off his alarm clock.’ So he is always dreaming consciously. I could keep trying to decipher this, because its actually pretty interesting, but I think it might take all night.
He says “conscience dreaming” but he means “Conscious Dreaming” which actually happens to be a famous book by Robert Moss.
Trying to decipher the disrupted thought patterns and motives of Jared Loughner is like trying to read entrails to glean information. This said, based on what on line fragments of his cyber life and current news reports I can find, it may turn out that his psychotic break was triggered by some set of events at the community college he attended-probably a failure of a course or two. That he had a run in with campus police and blamed the state supported college for his current desperate financial situation of being unemployed and unemployable.
That he was conflicted about his sexual identity. Smoked a fair amount of pot (which can in certain predisposed individuals trigger schizophrenia). Was unsuitable for military service (may have been rejected based on his possession of paraphernalia conviction) and, somewhere known but yet to be revealed by investigators, became convinced that he was being guided by the uncivil ranting of some in the media (my blind bet Glenn Beck as one of them).
The sad truth is that this unhinged individual has left a wake sadness in the lives of the innocent victims and their families. Mr. Loughner in sobering reality, will now have to face the judicial consequences of his callous actions.
He’s no schizo. That’s what his lawyer’s psychiatrist will attempt to portray so he can avoid the death penalty. However, he murdered those 6 and tried to assassinate his Congresswoman, a premeditated act that may have involved accomplices.
Try him, convict him and give him the juice.
This really isn’t that hard to understand. His final words are a basic lesson from a postmodern theory class- what would government be without language? The entire video with his “final thoughts” is just him using the law of syllogism to describe a series of examples of how societies throughout history have created artificial systems of time, money, and language and he seems to allude to a theme of empowerment that he wants to bestow on his audience. The few sentences about his receiving a mini bible while being recruited for the army are probably a testimony to his own personal feelings about the man-made system of religion and how since he didn’t list a religion, the recruiter listed him as “none”– another lesson from postmodern teachings is government’s desire to categorize us, even if the category is ‘null’ and how this practice has affected minorities historically and today. The mini bible and “Relgion: None” incident may have been a moment in his life where postmodern theory applied for him.
I don’t sympathize with the man’s actions, but I have been in his mindset, before- minus the violence. I thought there were people in power who were corrupt while I was doing a school research project on politics and developed paranoia that I was being tracked and my doom at the hands of the right-wing was imminent. I was hospitalized, medicated, and recovered. Some killers are just idiots, but this man seemed to just have had a misguided education in postmodern theory. When you’re in that psychotic state of mind and armed with what you feel is a valid theory, the only cure is to argue with somebody who is more logical than you and can help you see the fallacies of your delusions as well as the weak spots if not the fallacies of the theory. Acute hospitalization and medication only made my paranoia worse. I’m lucky to have an attorney as a father who had the patience to let me argue out all of my fallacies and set my mind straight, again.
It is unfortunate that this man did not get the kind of help that I did. My thoughts are with the victims. Drawing from my experiences, I’m hoping to make a career out of mental health care reform and maybe, one day, these incidents can at least be minimized with the right resources.
People are ridiculous, it’s never the fault of the guy who committed the crime but the fault of the inanimate object he used. If this kid didn’t have a gun he would have used a picaxe, or an automobile, he’s crazy and this whole thing is 100% his fault.
No belief in government or God….completely lost!
Mind, body, and soul are not thriving!
The soul influences the mind, the mind influences the body from
there you will how a human being reacts. Putting too much thought
into government and not enough toward God….Creator of ALL LIVING
THINGS! ONLY GOD CAN LEAD US TO RIGHTEOUSNESS!
My prayers go out to ALL victims of society!
If arizon has no law in place for Jared to not own a gun ,then Jared will not own a gun
Arizona had no law in place for Jared to not own a gun.
Hence, Jared owned a gun
You can have all the gun control you want; someone in that state of mind will find a gun (or worse) somewhere…
Have you noticed that CNN and Fox are ignoring the comments made by the Sheriff regarding the hate being broadcast by the people the radio. Fox News has a solid conservative bias and will not mention it. CNN is afraid to mention the sheriff’s comments about hate on radio because it fears being called liberal. CNN is not liberal.
I am not a fan of gun control, but if you make it easier for people to own and carry hidden guns, that hold larger clips, you make it easier for crazy people to kill, kill more efficiently and kill more people. The gun did not cause this guy to kill but it did make it easier for him to hurt and kill so many.
The ones committing these idiotic crimes are NOT carrying a gun permit. Carry permit holders are not the ones you have to watch. I am a carry permit gun owner, a grandmother, and a great-grandmother. I carry to protect MYSELF!!! from the crazies. Gun laws are too laxed but the crazies and criminal-minded have always and will always be able to obtain guns – so gun laws will be directed to the legal carriers. I was fingerprinted and had a background check. I am not going out to shoot up a place but it is might right to protect myself in case I come across the crazies.
MKULTRA. You’re welcome.
To all those blaming Beck, Patin ,Rush, etc. You had better blame with the same anger and vitriol Arianna Huffington, Keith Olbermann, MoveOn.org, DailyKos, etc., with no “wells” or “buts”. To not would clearly illustrate your own selective bias and blind political rhetoric, shamelessly using this tragedy to further your own political animosity.
For a trained person Loughners posts on Myspace are almost diagnostic for schizophrenia.
At least 1% of the population is psychotic for some period in their life. -The sad truth is that this could even happen to you and me.
Delusional thoughts in the head and a gun in the hand can cause a lot of misery in a short time.
Events like this shooting and the awareness of the incidence of severe mental illness should convince everybody that the sale of guns needs to be restricted.
“But guns protect” I hear. .-We have to weigh the likelyhood of protection against the risk of injury. Do you know somebody in real life outside Hollywood who was truly protected because he had a gun? But you do know lots of cases where people were hurt -just open a newspaper.
Wow, it seems my comment was removed from here as I’m sure this one will be as well. Freedom of the press squashed instantaneously – was it my honesty? Certainly nothing libelous about it, just pure truth, yet one more thing we shake our heads about now regarding AZ. No problem, it’s all already in my upcoming book only now this horrible tragedy must be added. God Bless!
Sorry stlers74, I don’t see any comparison between the level of hate expressed by Beck etc – especially including Palin’s images of this congress woman being in cross hairs of a gun – on the liberal outlets you name. Show us what you mean. You may disagree with them, and they may say some things you consider radical – but show us the instances where they have implied violence must be used, the way Palin constantly does – “reload”, etc.
To everyone: We’re trying to maintain some civility in the comment section, which is the reasoning behind some of the comments being removed. Understandably, emotions are running high, but please try to refrain from name calling and over-the-top rhetoric.
we should be reading capitalism and schizophrenia by deleuze and guattari…paranoid schizophrenic is this guy’s diagnosis and we can only understand the crime and how to prevent crimes like this if we follow his convoluted logics
A lot of talk about gun control, hateful political speech and rightfully so, but please tell me when it’s alright to start judging the parents?
To all those arguing if he’s liberal or conservative- I think the true answer is he walks that thin line where ultra liberalism becomes extreme conservativism, and vise-versa. And to all the people bringing god and religion into this, saying that godlessness causes these tradgies, you’re the ones who are delusional and crazy- believing some guy in the sky created and runs everything! Talk about schitzo… more people have died in the name of god than this guy could cause with every gun ever made. Kinda ironic how all the gun freaks are god freaks too…coincidence? Right wing revolution = crusades of the current day.
This kid seemed to be trying to find himself politically, because his favorite books which were political in nature varied with communism, socialism, and anti communism (We are the living). His actions in his videos seem to take an anti-government and even anti-societal stance. Basically, this kid’s thought process is all over the place. However, he decided to express his feelings with violence, instead of other types of expression. And in a time where leaders and pundits are implying violence, uprisings, revolutions, and other extreme positions, you can’t help but look at those people and think they had supplied the atmosphere for this kid to think violence is what is needed.
Good lord. The first comment on this article (the one by Bongo) is the most insufferable example of grammar or spelling policing I’ve ever seen. A long, fascinating report on the disturbed mind of what could be the most infamous killer in a decade, and Bongo is worried about an extraneous “u”.
Sweet Mary, what a douche.
And, lest it go unnoticed, some of the comments on here are nearly as frightening as Loughner’s rants.
I’m pretty sure this schizo made a grammar mistake:
“If the property owners and government officials are no longer in ownership of their land and laws from a revolution then the revolutionary’s from the revolution are in control of the land and laws.”
Revolutionary’s should be plural, not possessive. The fact that I can read this garbage and make enough sense out of it to assess for grammar does scare me a little bit, but I relish the fact that I could show this guy why he is completely full of $hit and that he sucks.
My thoughts are prayers go out to all of the families victimized by the senseless violence. God bless.
This young man is suffering from psychosis. He has delusional thinking and creates frameworks in his mind. He shows grandiosity, paranoia and a fixation on a few themes – terrorism, mind control, religion, grammar. He may have schizophrenia or perhaps bipolar illness (severe, with psychosis, type I). My wife and I are the parents of a young man with bipolar I. He is 28 now and very well, completing a graduate degree. When he was 22 and finished his B.A. degree in New England, he began behaving strangely, showing paranoia. We thought he was taking drugs. It took us two more years to realize how sick he was and we only knew this after my wife and I visited a psychologist for advice. We got him committed to hospital (very difficult to do, as he claimed to be very well) and on lithium and an anti-psychotic drug. The difference was miraculous. All of the strange behavior ceased and he remembered everything, telling us why he made faces, was hearing voices telling him to do things. He was well for six months and then the psychiatrist decided to remove the anti-psychotic drug. About a year later we noticed him again commenting about God and sinners and talking in delusional ways. He believed that an actor in a movie was sending him messages. It was difficult to get him back to hospital – the laws are so skewed toward civil liberties and absolute proof – but we finally succeeded and he was immediately put back on the anti-psychotic. Within a few days he began to talk sense again and within a few more weeks was quite well — returning to university. Our son has never resisted taking the drugs prescribed to him. He has not smoked pot or taken street drugs since he was a freshman in college ten years ago. He drinks 3 or 4 beers a week. We know because he has lived with us these past six years and we have watched him closely. Soon he will be starting a new job and moving to his own apartment. He now has many normal traditional-values friends who are in university or are working.
About 2% of the population will have psychosis — half from schizophrenia and half from bipolar. Psychosis is caused by problems of brain chemistry. Until 30 years ago, it was not treatable and people spent their lives institutionalized. Now, with newer drugs, perhaps 80% or more of cases are treatable and these people can have productive lives. The illness is not curable – they must always take the medications, even into their 80s – until they die.
People with psychosis are not inherently dangerous. Their basic personalities don’t change. What happens is that their perceptions are messed up and their logic doesn’t work correctly. Psychosis affects all races, all classes, both sexes the same. There is a hereditary component to it and it can skip generations. You may have a child or grandchild with it, or an ancestor who had it. About one in five of these people who are untreated will eventually commit suicide, because a voice told them to do it or because their hate the lives that they are trapped in.
A major problem for this country is that Hollywood has characterized this illness as spooky and evil — a medieval view of it — in order to make money. As a people we need to fix this. Many of the people living on the street suffer psychosis. They often will take drugs to seek relief — drugs themselves do not cause psychosis. This is a neglected illness in the USA.
Everything that a psychotic person perceives or imagines comes from their environment. We can see that. Almost all psychotic people are pretty normal in their early years, with these symptoms appearing in their late teens or early twenties.
Jared’s actions were preventable. If people recognized the behavior for what it is and if the laws did not make it so difficult to confine people for a few days, if psychiatrists didn’t fear being sued by the patient — then people like Jared, mostly, would respond to medications and become normal.
Two percent of 300 million means that about six million Americans living today will have an episode of psychosis or even be psychotic for much of their lives. We cannot ignore this problem. The medications are not expensive. We need to learn about it and get help for those who get this, through no fault of their own.
This is for OutOfPatience and the others who are blaming Sarah Palin for this tragedy.
The Democratic Party has not once but twice used “bullseye” maps to show their Republican targets. They even used words like “target” and “enemy” to refer to Republicans, right on the maps. Check this out: http://www.verumserum.com/?p=13647+
Oh, and how do you like this ad from Democratic Congressman Harry Mitchell? It shows his Republican opponent in an ACTUAL rifle scope, not a printer’s registration mark on a map: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqB4tyvxWKA
This lunatic, to the extent he has any coherent political philosophy, is a leftist. A flag-burning, pot-smoking, pro-abortion, anti-Christian, cop-hating leftist. This is borne out by his writings as well as by the comments of people who know him.
If you people start pointing fingers at the Tea Party or Sarah Palin for this, YOU are the ones who are in fact guilty of spreading hate and poisoning the political atmosphere. You are evil, horrible people, using the actions of a lunatic to advance your partisan political agenda over the dead bodies of the people he killed. I can hardly think of anything more sickening.
I have not seen many comments trying to interpret Jared Loughner’s description of the new bird mentioned in the comments that accompanied his flag burning video. To me it sounds like a description of a high powered sniper’s gun on a tripod. Is it possible he could also be talking about an unmanned predator drone? Did one come for him and he evaded it? How would you react if you saw a sniper aiming for you or a drone seeming to hone in on you? Is our government now turning such things on us? It would explain a lot if this had happened to Loughner. Who would believe him?
Gun control – If you outlaw guns, then only outlaws will have guns. Guns don’t kill people, people kill people. Does anyone think that people committing crimes are doing so with legally registered guns ? They are criminals, therefore they don’t care !
WildWilly68 — think about this.
The people who need to be trained to understand psychosis (see my post earlier) are those who give out gun permits or sell guns. Sure the criminals who are not crazy can get guns. But the people who shoot up schools and shopping centers are not criminals – they are mentally ill people. Those are the people who must not get guns. They are deranged, usually naive. They will be going to gun stores or shows or ordering online. It is there that they must be stopped.
I must say, the idea of all of us arming ourselves because we may be victims of a deranged person – well, this is just crazy. You can have a gun – but leave it at home. The right to bear arms is not about walking down the street with a ‘piece’. If a tyrant takes over the government, we will all have time to go home and get our guns!
Toolman – I am from New York, where gun laws are very strict. The fact of the matter is, in states where there is little or no waiting period for purchasing a gun, much less ANY sort of a background check, guns are going to be available to these people. Expecting a gun shop owner to be able to recognize a “tick” in someones personality is unrealistic. Many of them have trouble counting their balls and coming up with the same number more than once.
Should Palin pay his legal fees?
Arizona – Alaska????
Our country is insane. How could a criminal be able to buy a gun? Legal – only in Arizona? Maybe Texas…oh and Alaska. Right Sarah? 1 down, 19 to go.
How many tens of thousands of innocent Americans would be alive today if the killers were not allowed to buy guns?
Why don’t people understand that people who really want a gun for the purpose of committing a crime, are NOT going to do so legally !!!!
People like abolitionist, who think only through liberal mindsets, and believe that there is no socialists agenda have not been alive long enough to realize that it is real. I know, I was around when they claimed that they would do exactly what they are doing here in America with things like we call ‘political correctness’, so you don’t know what you are talking about. This incident has nothing to do with that. It is about the many, just like this young man, who, with free health care or not, will still be doing the same thing. It is the same doctors, pharmacologists, and lawmakers who support their greed, who do not and will continue to not do anything about these tortured individuals… it takes too much money out of their pockets and time to care for them, free health care or not, because they would have to completely control them to use their sorceries [from the Greek word ‘pharmakeia’ which is also where we got the words to do with pharmacology because of the meaning, duh!] on them. Therefore, until there is compassion, like the Creator has warned us for thousands of years now, then none of this will change, and it will not change as long as we are given a choice by our leaders, both political and media, of only 2 supposed political parties at the end of the voting season. They will always be scratching each other’s backs to both stay in their illusion of ‘power’ and they will continue to be our only false choice [not really a choice at all]. I don’t worry about these things because I know who is really in TRUE POWER, and it ain’t a political party. We are already seeing the first effects of what God told us would happen, but only His children will allow themselves to see these facts… you have to get past your wantonness of instant gratification in the fulfilling of your youthful lusts. I am just relieved to see it coming to a head… because most people say they care but never lift a finger to change it in real life, just in a political sense, which obviously does no good. I truly wish everyone would do what we were designed for, regardless of political party, [I claim neither political dog party] so that we would not have these type things happening to have to be talking about them in the first place… but most don’t REALLY care until something like this happens, though that care fades into the background in just a few days. These type things didn’t happen when God was allowed in schools, on TV, in movies, in households, in public speech, etc… I know this because I was around then and saw all these things start and grow worse the more God was taken out of our lives by intrusive lawmakers. ‘Proof is the pudding’, I believe is the most efficient way to put it. Enough said I think.
@GrannyBG “The state of hate…” So if I were to illegally enter your home, you would allow me to live their and take care of me? According to you, it would be hateful to call the police for illegally entering.
Fact is, if there is no criminal record, there is no way to know the intent of the purchase of a weapon. Those that do have criminal records don’t obtain weapons legally, they steal them (that’s why they’re known as criminals).
I wonder… if he had health coverage that covered mental illness… I wonder …. if he could afford the meds that are required for him to maintain a healthy brain… I wonder … if all those people would still be alive if we had a national health plan for everyone… I wonder … why are people shocked when things like this happen all the time?
Toolman68, thanks for your thoughtful post. As someone with a close relative who suffers from paranoid schizophrenia, I’m all too well aware of (1) how little most people understand about mental illness (as illustrated by some of the comments on this page, for example) and (2) how incredibly difficult it is to get treatment for mentally ill people with paranoid delusions. (Thank goodness my family member is now on very effective medication, but it was unbelievably difficult to get him help.) In Loughner’s case, his Facebook postings certainly point to paranoid schizophrenia, as do the reports of his bizarre outbursts in class. Also, the fact that the university would not readmit him without a statement from a doctor that he was “not a danger to himself or others” (the standard criterion used to determine whether someone should be involuntarily institutionalized for mental illness) clearly indicates that someone at the university suspected that Loughner was psychotic. (Though the Army won’t comment, I wouldn’t be surprised if suspected mental illness was what kept him out of the military, as well.)
The ability to buy a gun is called freedom. The disability of not being able to buy as gun, of having to ask a government official for permission to buy a gun, is called tyranny. Especially in this country wherein we still have not produced a Stalin, or Hitler, or a Idi Amin Dada, thanks to our Constitution and bill of rights. Thus we have not produced the prodigious genocide victims so common in the rest of the world. 60 million in soviet Russia, 100 million in communist China and millions more elsewhere and let us not forget the millions killed by that bastion of socialism, the 3rd Reich. They all had massive gun controls, and outright bans, especially to certain people, something our constitution has thus far prevented.
When truly sad and rare events occur because we enjoy that those freedoms, including the massacres which have happened in places, where law abiding people are unconstitutionally prevented from protecting themselves, we are outraged and demand justice. But we do not offer our liberties in payment for those acts because we, did not commit those acts. We also realize that we may at some point, need to protect ourselves and families from those engaging in those same acts in the future, instead of wetting our diapers and submitting to the tender mercies of the actor/s.
One is not free if one must obtain permission to protect one’s self or family. One and possibly one’s family, may not live through the process of awaiting the convenience, of government officials so commissioned by government. It has happened to others, here and elsewhere in the world, many times many.
Read the whole thing from bottom to top instead of from top to bottom and consider each new sentence as a progression from the last. I think that’s what Jared was implying by saying “watch this protest in reverse.” It makes a lot more sense that way.
Reading his comment about his leaving his religious preference blank, I was reminded of Moussaui, the would-be 20th hijacker. When asked about his religion at the flight school in Minneapolis, the young radical Muslim replied, “I am nothing,” which of course, was not true.
Keep in mind the question came after his alert flight instructor had just described the death of all aboard a flight of Muslim pilgrims to Mecca where the pilot had forgotten to depressurize the cabin…After this exchange took place, the flight instructor wisely instructed his colleague to have the school notify authorities. This was the real reason the flight instructor told a colleague to contact authorities, not as was erroneously reported that the French pilot was only interested learning out to take off and not land.
The point is not to disparage people who who do not have a religious preference or have no religion at all. And this was not the instructor’s point either. The instructor felt Moussaui seemed so self-absorbed and detached from reality on many levels that his, “I am nothing,” comment seemed to be a mask hiding criminal intent.
Jared Loughner , like Moussaui, is not a well person; he is a person who has come to want to murder other people but unlike Moussaui, he actually carried though with his plan. Unfortunately for Loughner and most especially for his victims, his terrorist plans were not intercepted in time. It should make us all appreciate the guardians in our midst who do care enough to report trouble to authorities.
Also it’s interesting to notice his views on the BC and AD years in which he says they are “endless.” Notice how the BC years count down to the AD years, at which point they begin to progress instead of regress type of movement. It’s a sort of time and evolution philosophy I have a feeling. He’s just gotten way too far out there. Obviously after his previous acts, to the point of no return.
According to this story (“Dupnik: Gunman made previous ‘threats of death’ but not against Giffords”) http://azstarnet.com/article_0e6ad2ce-1b8e… “[Dupnik] said the gunman was a subject of, ‘some police interest in the recent past,’ and he has made death threats in the past, but not toward Giffords.”
So, how did the guy manage to avoid court-ordered treatment as a danger to others? That would’ve made him a prohibited possessor (although he might’ve looked to the underground market for a gun or used a large motor vehicle instead). I wonder if any investigative journalist will look at any police records when the guy was a subject of police interest.
http://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument.asp?in…
7. “Prohibited possessor” means any person: (a) Who has been found to constitute a danger to himself or to others or to be persistently or acutely disabled or gravely disabled pursuant to court order under section 36-540, and whose right to possess a firearm has not been restored pursuant to section 13-925.
http://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument.asp?in…
N. If a person has been found, as a result of a mental disorder, to constitute a danger to self or others or to be persistently or acutely disabled or gravely disabled and the court enters an order for treatment pursuant to subsection A of this section, the court shall grant access to the person’s name, date of birth, social security number and date of commitment to the department of public safety to comply with the requirements of title 13, chapter 31 and title 32, chapter 26.
excellent insight and writing by Gibson.
I live in Arizona, in Giffords’ district and I’m a Liberal. I carry a concealed weapon and let me tell all of you, if there were more people there that day with concealed weapons it probably would not have gotten to the extent that it did. However, now is not the time to place blame on any political party, and if any of you disagree try to remember it was confirmed he is a self proclaimed, true LIBERAL.
It’s time to stop blaming one another and start getting back to our
obligations! We are responsible for our own actions! We are to
help one another not hurt one another!
Why is more hurt expressed throughout the universe than help?
How can we help the victims of this heinous crime?
How can we help the murder of this heinous crime?
I Believe anyone who murders or terrorized is mentally and emotionally disturbed. Is that going to be an excuse to keep them from taking responsibility for the horrific crimes they committe. I am hearing such rehtoric that Loughner was not responsible because he was a nut. If this person were a minority that committed this crime they would have probably be tried and hanged by now! I believe that many of these home grown terrorists anglo men are somehow are identified as mentally and emotionally disturbed, and so cannot be held responsible for their activities. Yet those on death row, are mostly minority men, who are executed for the crimes they commit. I am also hearing and reading that this was a lone kid, with no friends etc.etc. are they looking for sympathy for this nut. Yet we have 9 year old black boys, being tried as adults, for rape!!!!! unbelievable the double standards here.
Trying to find order from a chaotic mind is a mistake. If this guy was some kind of hardliner who prescribed to a specific line of thinking it would be one thing. His thoughts are all over the place.
That would be like saying Squeeky Fromme was a Democrat because she tried to shoot Ford. Same thing with that guy who shot up the Holocaust museum this summer. He just is. I don’t think he was listening to Sarah Palin, Glenn Beck, Rush Limbauh or Mark Levin any more than Ed Schultz, Kieth Obermann, Rachael Maddow or Bill Maher. He was listening to the voices in his own head.
Anyone who can find a clear line of reasoning pointing him toward a specific political party is being disingenuous. I think it’s funny that many people are quick to jump and label this guy a tea party supporter with very few clues to that fact, but are petrified about Hassan being labelled a radical muslim terrorist. Hasan came running into a gym full of soldiers firing guns, dressed in Arab garb, and screaming “Allah Akbar !” and all I heard was that he was just crazy and he had no link to Islam.
Hassan conformed to the profile very closely (unlike Loughin), yet those with political gain to be had refused to call him what he is (including our prez). Just my two cents. I’m sure I’ll be told I’m a “shill” for the republican party. That’s how discourse is held these days in our country.
there are gun laws in il an shooting every day you cant keep retarded ones from steeling are buying a guns that’s hot .they need to quit ,they know he did it don’t waste more taxpayers money take him in the street an in front of every one see this is what happens .execute him .an any one who kills a child .show then they will not have a movie are be examples to others like him.stand up against people protesting against funnels these people call themselves baptist an christens they will all be in hell.real christen show love an would pray not protest a dead person they would pray for the lost an right now they are in that group .all real baptist pray for them they need in are they will be in hell fire. with this guy
This is not random rantings if you know the context of what he is saying. I have seen the same in others writings who have lashed out at the government.
“What is government if word’s have no meaning?” is the trailing thought that passes through most of his writings. The fact that he addresses the unconstitutional laws and edicts of both the congress and HSA shows that there is due consideration made by him. This is fact, there are many agencies and statutes in place that are not constitutional. So, “the words have no meaning.”
Calling him a terrorist, “Ad Hominem” implies that though he thinks he is acting as a patriotic individual, others will label him a terrorist because they do not understand what he has displayed or written. (proving to be true)
The “revolutionary” comments are pointing to the fact that there are many who believe our government has been taken over by a small-faction, non-elected body that actually runs things, property ownership and currency manipulated by those with the power. Not a new thought process here either…
Dan, you want more info, my info is available at my FB account..
Be Peace, Prayers for all those who are suffering from this tragedy, Ravenaeus
Living here in Ireland where the only people who have guns are the police and those licensed as needing them in agriculture plus the criminals of course, it shocks me how easy it is to have a gun in the States. On my frequent travels, I have always been struck by the range of places that sell guns and the ease with which u can get them. Never in Ireland or indeed Europe and we, thankfully, have nothing like the frequency of horrendous killing events reported in USA. In this particular case, the pain and suffering of all concerned is unfathomable but it is so clear, that this young man was extremely unwell. Yet, the media for months has been reporting the huge objection to your Health Care Bill which is the beginning surely, of insuring a decent health service for all. Why did his college not refer for mental health assessment and treatment as opposed to saying ur out till mentally cleared to return. Is this not the glass half full philosophy. Had the college had a focus on the students needs rather than the college needs, arguably, this guy would have been diagnosed and treated and this awful event would have been avoided. What I’m suggesting is that, schools and college’s concerned about the threat posed by any student, should be mandated to do an assessment to inform clinical need, rather than simply suspending and leaving the onus on a vulnerable individual or family.
U have a wonderful country and events such as this are so bloody awful but one can’t help wondering why such a fantastic country can leave a young man like this without assessment; diagnosis and treatment throughout his time in school as I believe this event was avoidable. Meds work; care and love protect, come on America-this was avoidable on so many levels.
Psychiatric diagnosis belongs with the experts, and even they can get it wrong. We can see why by a glance at http://www.psych.org/mainmenu/research/dsm… – the American Psychiatric Diagnostic Manual. Too much reading of the DSM can leave even the best-adjusted questioning which of several likely labels he or she fits.
The shooter’s writing may be an example of poor writing technicque or an awkward attempt to creatively express various thoughts. Who knows, maybe it was his English courses that threw his GPA into the crapper. I”m wary of labeling anyone as mentally ill based on Internet correspondences, with the terrain being trickly for the best writers, and words easily misconstrued.
There is, of course, no doubt as to his actions on Saturday, and thus it is easy to read into prior writing.
His act was insane, but that doesn’t mean he is clinically insane. I’d not want to see this person get a more lenient sentence based on an insanity plea, but that will be determined by others and is out of our hands. The insanity argument also gives an out – aka excuse – to any far-right or far-left political group members who wish to either blame the other or escape blame.
Personally, I am not finding any comfort in blame.
— I voted for Representative Giffords, I’ve listened to her talk at a previous event, and I deeply respect her, even when I disagree with some of her positions.
Bongo at a time like this … you need to pore something over your head!!
I’ve read enough. Many readers are commenting about mental illness, schizophrenia, being deranged..yada yada yada…Look this is America. With few exceptions, every single person starting in infancy learns the overall concept of right and wrong.
Even a paranoid, dillusional sociopath knows that a rampage killing spree with a firearm is wrong. Do not feel sorry for him. Hang him by his ankles then split him in two with a chain saw. After a few public executions that are slow and horrific these deranged psychos will start choosing a long walk off a short pier instead of going postal.
I’m glad he wasn’t a Hispanic so Hispanic haters can’t say shiite!
Thank you Im Smart, I like your ideas! 🙂
Laughner’s comments clearly indicate that he subscribed to the “New World Order” conspiracey. His attack appears to targret his fears.
Imsmart, I must say, you probably have not been in psychosis. Nor have you lived with someone with psychosis. These poor people are not guilty. They do not see the world as you do. Their perceptions are all warped. They are victims of a malfunctioning brain. They are not criminals. But they can be dangerous. As a society, we need to spot them early, and treat them. We cannot just leave them on the street, or leave them to wander, lost in insanity. We do not treat animals this way.
I am amazed so many people posted here, a few even stopping to say “Bad Bongo!” because I corrected an error. To be honest I have never seen so many people on the Tucson Weekly site before. Where are all you people the rest of the time? Sorry to have been glib in mentioning the “pouring/poring” thing, but it’s a pet peeve and, to be fair, the corrected version is a better read. If you’re a writer and you’re trying to communicate something important, the last thing you want is for readers to get momentarily tripped up on a misspelling. So there’s that. But yeah, there are also more important things.
Quick response to sparo, who wrote, “I wonder if he drove his car into that crowd whether people would be opining as to who sold him that car and whether there should be mental health screens to purchase cars.” I think it’s interesting you use this example, because getting a driver’s license actually does require a much higher level of scrutiny and testing than obtaining a handgun. I think you have made the opposite point you were trying to make.
As much as he probably wanted to, Jared Loughner didn’t live in a vacuum, nor do any of us. I’m sure many things had an effect on him. I would think that the more pronounced something is, the more of an effect it would have. I was almost ready to concede that there may have been no direct connection between the insane, violent rhetoric of the last two years, and his actions. Though I was certain it wasn’t helpful. Then I saw one of Loughner’s videos — the one that made him persona non grata at Pima Community College. Much of it, of course was rambling nonsense. But there were parts that matched, almost verbatim, the Tea Party’s stance.
I believe that anyone of conscience, upon hearing of this, asked themselves at some point, “Did I contribute to this?” To me, the answer isn’t as important as having the decency to ask the question in the first place.
Afterwards, it became painfully obvious who didn’t, as they scurried to deflect blame from themselves, and assign it to others. They fear looking into their own hearts because of what looks back from the darkness.
I read an interview with a friend of his, who said that Loughner’s focus on Giffords began at an event months earlier during a question and answer session. Loughner posed a question to Giffords, and she either didn’t answer to his satisfaction, or dismissed it. The question was, “What is government if words have no meaning?” It was nonsense, of course, and she probably ignored it and went on to take a question from someone more lucid. Though I think if she had answered, it would have gone something like, “Well, if words have no meaning, what good would my answer be to you?”
His friend also stated that Loughner quit using drugs in 2009, and it was then his mental illness became noticeably worse. I’ve known some people in the past with psychological or emotional problems, who “self-medicated”. Either because they couldn’t or wouldn’t get help. Maybe what’s left of their psyche, or even the body itself senses something wrong, and tries in some crude way to correct it. At best, it only postpones the inevitable.
People with a behavioral health diagnosis (that’s what we call it now, trying to lose the stigma) are not nearly as dangerous (most are not dangerous at all) as a drunk or someone high on drugs. Let’s take their rights away too. Anyone who has ever consumed alcohol or taken any kind of mood altering drug, legal or not, should not be allowed to purchase or own a gun.
“God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion.
The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is
wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts
they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions,
it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. …
And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not
warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of
resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as
to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost
in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from
time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
It is its natural manure.”
Glenn Beck is clearer than that, Tim…And if his voice was talking to me regularly, I’d go crazy too…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQcvbw6ExTQ
Glenn Beck Shoot Them In The Head Video Clip Found
http://www.youtube.com
Glenn Beck Shoot Them In The Head Video Clip Found
There is nothing in these writings that shows Loughner to be any less mentally stable than about 10,000 other Tucsonans, or in a broader context, than half the millions of people around the country who listen to right wing hate radio for hours every day. Most of them, of course, carry guns.
He is not schizophrenic.
Loughner was an avid reader of Lenin and Hitler. Perhaps instead of blaming the Tea Party, we should look to the many Communist parties and businesses in this town. Oh, sorry, that’s just vitriol.
This creep needs a lethal injection asap! He does not deserve to be alive. At All.
I can imagine Loughner reading small books like 1984 or Brave New World for school.
I can also imagine that Jarad Loughner DID NOT read Ayn Rand, Mein Kampf or The Communist
Manifesto. I can guess that some of these books were listed to influence reactions & the
media after the act. I remember reading about other shooters/ assassins who also had the
media parsing their reading material. Apparently he did to. Jarad Loughner prepared
the You Tube videos and book list to manipulate and confuse the media’s and public reaction.
If he survived he wanted ppl to see him as crazy and as a deep complicated kind
of guy. IMO, he was and is manipulating the media very well and they are falling all
over themselves trying not to offend people on the right side of the political fence.
Also IMO, Loughner made himself psychotic by being high 24/7 for years.
Was he lucid? He might have been going in and out and had a hard time seeing which way was out.
Also, it was reported he was doing (crystal?) salvia and pot. What was he taking
to get him up and balance out the hypnotics? Coffee?
How about anabolic steroids (Tiger Blood) and or meth?
I like how one of his ex-friends gets on a morning TV show and describes how JL was obsessed with
Zeigeist (probably the original which is not easy to find on YT)
and then he declares that Zeitgeist wasn’t political and therefore JL wasn’t political.
In fact this stupid movie is very political. It attacks Bush and Obama as well as both political parties…
as did the tea party. (Google Michelle Goldberg’s take on at Daily Beast)
Right wingers were attracted to Zeitgeist by the thousands.
The tea party campaigned against Obama naturally, but also against Bush in 2008
Judge Jarad Loughners behavior by the things he did well before the shooting
THAT COULD NOT BE MANIPULATED and that match the things he said and did
immediately before the shooting. The YT channel was created in Oct or Nov of 2010.
He most certainly had others probably playing the same stupid music.
All the nonsense about “currency” is all Zeitgeist and Sovereign Citizen right wing talk.
All of it. He spoke to Giffords and wrote on his sites like the crazy paranoid right winger
who goes around talking about how government uses language to influence peoples thinking.
(He’s right, they do and so does everyone else with something to sell including the crazy
political stuff people buy into all the time like it was revealed from God.)
Burning the flag and the grave? Not complicated, nothing to figure out.
When the military rejected him he rejecting them and, in effect,
the grave was his own b/c he had to know his chances of survival during or after
the shooting were slim to none. He was, unfortunately, wrong
Everyone really doesn’t get it. I think he gave his real motive on one of his earth empires forum postings. It appears to be a screenshot of an excel spreadsheet. It looks like lots of “random” data that no one understood on the forum, but I understood it. He was saying that as someone who has a criminal history, a bad job history, and struggling with education – that he saw his life as having three options: (1) Suicide (2) going to jail (and at least getting feed, sheltered, health care etc) or (3) financially struggling for the rest of his life with dead end jobs and debt with no prospects, being a slave to the corporate machine which is basically another form of prison. So I think he CHOOSE prison – and is faking insanity so that he might escape the death penalty but get life in prison… are you’re all falling for it.
I would pay my life saving for 20 minutes alone with this freak in his cell
Clearly paranoid schizophrenia just hope he gets a fair trial and right treatmeant and hope he won’t get the death penalty he doesn’t deserve it especially if nobody would do anything about it when he clearly showed signs by his internet postings and disrupting class they should of done something rather then throwing him under the bus like that!!!
Just my opinon on the matter!!!
Don’t like it then don’t read it bawhahahaha sheeps as all government officials are!!!