The Economist shared some poll numbers regarding Arizona’s new immigration law last week along with a bit of analysis:
In the 1990s a similar backlash occurred in response to a Californian law, Proposition 187, approved by ballot in 1994 but blocked by the courts before it could go into effect. Supported by Pete Wilson, the Republican governor at the time, its objective was to keep illegal immigrants, most of whom were and are Hispanic, from using public services such as education and health care, and like the Arizona law, it required police to check up on suspects’ immigration status. Instead, 187 galvanised Latinos, who registered to vote in record numbers and changed the politics of California permanently. Even Republicans now fear alienating them.
But the question remains: Will Arizona Latinos start voting?
Some other poll takeaways from The Economist:
• In this week’s paper we say the backlash has begun (amongst Latinos) against the Arizona immigration law. But 58% of Americans approve of the law, while only 28% disapprove. And 57% of those who don’t live in Arizona want their own state to pass such a law. Dios mio!
• At least most supporters aren’t kidding themselves—71% of Americans believe it is likely that Hispanic citizens will be questioned by police because of the new law.
• Here’s an interesting fact: 29% of Hispanics approve of the Arizona law. Just over half (51%) strongly disapprove of it.
• It’s difficult to secure the border in piecemeal fashion, yet nearly half (48%) of the public thinks
states should be permitted to set their own immigration policies, while 34% would leave it to the federal government.
• Nearly three out of four Republicans would let individual states set immigration policy; a majority of Democrats would not. I wonder if these numbers would hold up if, say, Arizona’s law granted all illegal immigrants amnesty in the eyes of the state.
This article appears in May 6-12, 2010.
What hog wash! If your going to lie to everyone … you should kiss them too! After all isn’t that what you do when you want to screw them! Your position is diametrically opposed to the truth. I would consider this … “Yellow Journalism” … much the same as yellow snow.
bobby george – did you not actually follow the links to the Economist’s poll where 71% of respondents said the Hispanics were very likely or somewhat likely to be questioned by the police? http://media.economist.com/images/pdf/Topl…
Geckoman: So what?! Get them the hell out of my country, the illegal alians, that is. Get ’em out! Question them, interrogate them, arrest them, deport them. No more free lunch!
They are over populating the United States of America worse than any race. They are over breeding and are slowly bringing down our economy, with there false social security numbers. They are leaches that are feeding off the state funded programs such as food stamps and housing assistance as well as many others! how is it that a whole fiesta of a family can come over here illegally have baby’s at our hospitals free of charge which makes there children fully documented citizens which are eligible for state funded assistance!!! deport them all before its to late before they soften your heart with there sob stories about how bad Mexico is and there life’s were so horrible but then come over hear and disgrace our flag and all it stands for!!!! and this is coming from a Native American (boycott Arizona)
After Effects of SB1070 Passing:
Legal Hispanic population will start boycotting Arizona. Black people will also be targeted of the law because there are many dark colored Hispanics. This is like the Racial Law in Italy and Germany passed in 1922. Joe Arpajo proposer of Bill and head of the White Supremacist Group. Immediate effects of Bill – Negative impact on economy, negative impact on tourism, Mexican President Calderon has asked tourists no to visit Arizona. South American countries are starting to discuss how to boycott tourism to Arizona as well. Europe travel agencies are cancelling trips to Arizona as well. Trade is also being affected, American companies are also cancelling trade agreements with Arizona. Sports- 1/3 of NFL and MLB players are latinos and have already started to boycott. The relationship between cops and population will suffer as well with risks of increased crime rate. Civil Rights Law suits will weigh down on the already bad economy. Arizona was the last state in the union to recognize Martin L. King holiday and the only reason why they did at the end was because they were being overwhelmed with being boycotted. For every action there is a consequence. I too believe something should be done with illegal immigration but to give the authority to police to ask for ones legal status simply because driving while brown is totally rediculous and racist. The state should make tougher laws against employers who hire illegals.
I am ashame of all this comments when i work as a manager most of the time I am paying taxes (pennies) for white folks who enter my store with a bunch of coupons holding every one on line, Any way so far I have not seen a mexican sleeping under a bridge or holding a sign saying I work for food.
Allstar, Why should the responsibility be placed on business? They already are burdened by hundreds of regulation, have to collect taxes for the IRS (Income, SS, Medicare) plus pay taxes and on and on. IT’S THE FED’S JOB TO ENFORCE THE LAW BUT THEY AREN’T DOING IT OR DON’T HAVE THE STAFF TO DO.
The Arizon law just gives the state and local police the right to ask a simple question, ARE YOU IN THE US LEGALLY?????
Big deal, deal with it.
Don in Ohio and yes we have illegals here too!
Because if the businesses dont hire them they cant eat. All the mexicans I know work hard for what they own. I cant recall if I’ve ever seen a mexican standing on street corners asking for money or sleeping under bridges. If you give the state and local police the right to ask for ones legal status then it should be asked of ALL, colors and races. I have cousins who are light skinned with green eyes and friends who are canadian are you going to let those slip through the cracks as well.
Wow. . . The only good news I see in those numbers is that most people don’t think churches should have to turn in people who don’t have the papers the law requires.
What is it about immigration that bothers you? Is it crime? Then push for more criminal investigations– we have plenty of laws on the books against crimes we care about like murder, theft, drug trafficking, etc. The people who commit those crimes are not going to be easy to find; it will require real work to pursue them. If you start targeting people because of their immigration status, the people you will catch easily are not the criminals you despise.
Is it the effect on wages that bothers you? Then push for strict enforcement of our labor laws. There are plenty of businesses in Arizona who do not pay the required legal wage. This is because the Department of Labor does very little enforcement work in our state and the Attorney General does none whatsoever. If you enforce labor laws then there’s no incentive for anyone to seek out people to work for less.
See, immigration is just a red herring. And yelling about immigration turns us against one another, white vs. brown.
Well just for the record if it is Illegal, Immoral, or Indecent it is not right.
Everyone knows the truth about Illegal’s and how they drain down the economy and do not really care if they are considered an American or not. Thumbs up to Arizona /Jan Brewer for making the first move in the Legal direction because it is illegal to go into any country or state for that matter undocumented and it is a disturbing thought to think that you would be neighboring such careless lawbreakers without enough dignity to even come in the country correctly I have a three year old and I truly do not want her being taught by someone that does’nt even follow the rules themselves.It is immoral for all these babies to be conceived out of wedlock and it is indecent for anybody that think’s it is ok to break a law or flat out disregard it .It is UNCONSTTUTIONAL.Leaders of America wake up and think about those of us that are dealing with the over population hands on day after day. We want our job’s back and we want our pensions back and we want our social security back. Thank you! And i do not agree with the 71%. The law is aimed toward all illegal immigrants and they know who they are because it is written all over their actions and re-actions. THE MAN is only doing their job.
Yea, right. All the same claims where said about Prop – 204 in 2000, Prop – 200 in 2004 and Props – 100, 102, 103, 300 in 2006. The open boarders crowd has a poor record when it come to predicting the effect of a law. However there is still dumb luck.
People: 1) Knock it off with the name-calling. Your comments will be deleted if they aren’t at least somewhat civil. 2) Please read your comments–maybe even spell-check them–and realize how … well, dumb some of you look. Grammar, spelling … these things are important, and you don’t help your case if your comments read like they were written by a sleepy third-grader. Thank you.
to Allstar and Don in Ohio. Haven’t you ever seen a day laborer facility. We have one not far from where I live in California. There are about 100 people (mostly Latino) who stand out there all day hoping that someone will pick them up. They are not only at the day laborer site but all up and down the street. The only thing missing is a “Work for Food” sign. I’ll just bet that, if an ICE vehicle showed up they would scatter like leaves.
LindaRay64 You must not be reading these posts or are intentionally misreading them. No one here is complaining about legal immigration. We are very concerned with ILLEGAL immigration.
Wizardbard, what exactly is it about illegal immigration that bothers you, then? Please don’t just reflexively say that it is a crime that should be stopped; I imagine you are not similarly upset about jaywalking, for example. What I’m getting at is this: what is at the core of what you don’t want? Imagine for a moment that legal status is irrelevant. What is it that you see around you that you want to change? Again, if it’s crime, then go after people who commit the crimes that anger you: theft, fraud, murder, etc. If it’s an issue of wages, then push for enforcement of labor laws. But zeroing in on illegal immigration gets you nowhere on either crime or wages, if those are the things that are important to you.
This new law is to enforce the current federal & state laws that have been put in place 70 years ago. It’s straight up illegal to live in this Country without any papers, such as DL, working visa, green card, etc. Our Federal government has not been enforcing our current laws, so Arizona decided to take their own action with bill 1070. Most people who are against this bill need to do better research on this bill. It’s not racial profiling or taking away civil rights. It’s the LAW to have documentation in America. It’s that simple, our state spends so much ridiculous money on illegal aliens such as hospitals & schools. Our state would not be in this deep of a whole if it were not for these illegal aliens. This law enforces the current law for officers to detain & arrest any illegal aliens. The officers are not going to go to an ice cream shop & look for illegal aliens & arrest them, as our uneducated Obama described as this bill came out, he is a disgrace to this country. It would be any routine call such as traffic stops, car accidents, robberies, shootings, and murders, anybody committing a crime. When you are stopped by law enforcement what do they always ask you?…..for your ID of course. Americans are asked for their ID when they buy alcohol, a home, a car, a gym membership, when you use your credit card, when you go into a bar, etc. YOU’RE ALWAYS BEING ASKED TO SHOW ID. Come on America open your eyes, this racial profiling that people think is going to happen is so upsetting. We have a black President for crying out loud, who can’t even show us his birth certificate. We are the Country we are b/c we have laws, which is what makes this Country so great. Open your eyes & understand the bill the way it was written & stop feeling sorry for people that have broken the law, by crossing the border & living in America as an illegal alien. Educate yourself America….do your own research on this 1070 bill. Don’t listen to Obama or any biased news stations. You need to read the facts my friends, the bill is only 16 pages long! Please educate!
tucsonJ as i live here in az I approve this law. if anyone has been through a boarder patrol check point they ask every single car if you are a legal citizen. whats the difference if the police do it too? most people complaining about this new law dont even live here. get over yourselves!
You can make a poll say anything you want by manipulating those polled to manipulating the questions asked! They use to say those who live by the polling, die by the polling. So, polls are for idiots who don’t know how to utilize logic and critical thinking for themselves. I have been stopped and harassed by the police for speeding three times lately … I call it harassment … they called it doing their jobs. It is all a matter of perception which is normally biased to the side making the statements.
To Rachel W. — I could write a book on this subject but I’ll try to keep it as brief as possible. All crime bothers me from J walking up to murder. I’m “zeroing in” on immigration because that happens to be the topic of discussion on this board. I am anti ILLEGAL immigration because it is illegal. Approximately 30% of the prisoners in our jails are here illegally. Illegal immigration is one contributing factor to our deteriorating infrastructure, the severe financial issues we are experiencing in our hospitals, cities and states. Our porous borders let in not only illegal immigrants but drug smugglers and terrorists and our wonderful government is not doing it’s job in sealing off the border and protecting it’s citizens. Businesses hire illegals because they work for considerably less money that a citizen would and they can’t complain to the authorities because they’re illegal. I am against providing a path to citizenship for the 20 million or so illegals who are already in this country because they would then be eligible to bring in all their relatives and the 20 million would become 60 or 80 million. That’s enough for now. If you need additional reasons, let me know.
Ok, let me take your issues one by one.
1) deteriorating infrastructure/financial crisis. This is a very real problem, but one that is not caused by illegal immigration. Most illegal immigrants *do* pay taxes, in the form of payroll withholding and sales taxes. Also, because most undocumented people do not file tax returns, they do not get tax refunds that they are likely entitled to. The situation for social security is even more acute because the undocumented will never get the benefits of the social security they pay into the system. By using either an ITN (individual taxpayer number) or a false SSN, there is simply no mechanism to get the SS benefits. The notion that most illegal immigrants work solely for cash is erroneous.
2) drug trafficking/terrorism. Again, this has nothing to do with illegal immigration. Whether someone is here legally is not related to drug smuggling or terrorism. In fact, most of the terrorist incidents we’ve seen recently have been committed by *legal* immigrants or US citizens. In terms of drug smuggling, talk about fighting *drug smuggling* and drop the reference to immigration, because they are similarly unrelated. Drug smugglers are citizens, legal immigrants, and illegal immigrants; just focusing on illegal immigrants casts the net far wider than just drug smugglers and gets you only a portion of the drug smugglers.
3) labor. Strict enforcement of our labor laws would prevent employers from seeking people willing to work for less than the legal wage. And, imagine, with strict enforcement of our labor laws, *all* of us would be guaranteed the legal wage.
Sure, you’re against all law-breaking, but if there were a forum on jaywalking, I kind of doubt you’d get so exercised. But it’s *not* illegal immigration that causes the problems you speak of. And solving those problems requires confronting the actual problems (recession, drug smuggling, labor issues). Illegal immigration is just a distraction– and a distraction that is harmful because it a) keeps us from confronting the real problems; and b) contributes to hate.
Rachel W:
Well said. Couldn’t have expressed it more clearly myself.
To those who support SB 1070:
1. It is the nature of all walls to fail. China’s wall fell. Berlin’s wall fell. Any wall you attempt to erect between the US and Mexico will fall. The solution is not to attempt to block immigrants (illegal or otherwise); the solution is to learn how to live with them – and how to integrate them into the area.
2. You’re overlooking the element of SB 1070 that’s the most disturbing: Private citizens being able to slap law enforcement with nuisance suits if they feel that enough isn’t being done about all them there nasty immigints. Do you have any idea how much money this will cost, and how badly it’ll bog the courts?
Pay attention, folks, and the next time you want to talk about something that “everybody knows”, be willing and able to provide links to support your claims, or understand that you’re probably spouting nonsense.
Rachel W If you’re going to comment on my posts at least you do me the common courtesy of reading them. I said that illegal immigration was “ONE CONTRIBUTING FACTOR” to these problems and one that must be addressed along with all the others. I certainly don’t have all the facts but I would bet you that the majority of illegal immigrants do not pay taxes and do not pay into social security because their employers don’t want to government to know that they’re hiring illegal aliens.
Re drug smuggling, I want the border sealed to shut off all illegal immigration as well as drug smuggling and the very real possibility that terrorists are sneaking into the country as well.
If J walking created all the social issues that illegal immigration caused, I would get just as worked up. Comparing illegal immigration to j walking is a specious argument at best and likening apples to oranges at worst.
Yes, our labor laws must be strictly enforced. We need some sort of non counterfitable document that employers must, by law, see before hiring someone. Then the employers who hire people in the country illegally should be severely fined. Once the jobs dry up and the birthright provision in the 14th amendment is revoked, illegal immigration will stop.
I don’t “HATE” anyone any I deeply resent that implication. I just want our laws enforced.
Wizardbard, you haven’t read my posts, either. You’re saying illegal immigration is a contributing factor to these social problems. I’m saying it’s not a factor because it’s not a *cause* of these problems. It’s simply a parallel phenomenon. You haven’t pointed to one thing that says that illegal immigration *causes* any of the problems you talk about.
Wizard let me explain a few things to you, from my perspective.
Drug smuggling is not going to end unless the demand ends! Its a supply and demand business, if nobody buys it, then there’s no need for drug smugglers. If you close the borders, they’ll just find some cop to pay off! This isn’t new…
So the question is when the last time you had a joint? Are you contributing to the demand? Are any of your family members, friends. We cant be hypocrites to the main problems!
Are you as angry at people who use cellphones while driving as you are at illegals?
They cause many deaths of Americans!
I agree with you about enforcing the laws, but………
This issue did no start here in the U.S.A. Many of these illegals tried to go to their consultes in their countries but it’s not a line like many people seem to implicate (repub’s)
No, there’s no such thing as a line, a legitimate one at least!
My dad tried to bring my grandma of 75 years here after my grandpa died last year. After months of waiting she finally got an interview. She goes and the officer says ” are your kids legal in the USA. She answers, yes. Then he says, “ok then they can come visit you.”
What the hell is that, she’s not coming to live here. She wanted to visit her kids before dyeing but this a**hole said she wasnt a prime candidate. My uncle in law has a connection at the consulate that can get them visas for $10,000. What the hell is that?
The laws that are in place are bogus and only push illegal immigration forward. Corruption reigns in our shit countries, even inside US territories! That’s why many have come here illegally: fleeing, fleeing persecution by governments or gangs, or jut to finally meet up with their family members that are here.
WE NEED IMMIGRATION REFORM!!!!
Wizardbard if you truly cared about enforcing our laws, dont forget to also write your congressmen and let him know that the state of Arizona in its misguided efforts in trying to stop illegal immigration they TOO have overstepped their boundaries and currently under investigation and being sued by many groups in an economy that is already hurting. I have no problem if the police asks me for my id, I never have but the real problem I have with this new law is that you have given the state and local police the right to ask for ones legal status if you are perceived to be under suspicion or better yet (driving while brown). I have cousins who are light skinned with green eyes and friends who are canadian are you going to let them slip through the cracks. I too believe something needs to be done about ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION but I feel the state has totally gone the wrong way about it, if the state would have just came out and said that the new law will give the authority to ask of everyones legal status to be here, alot of the headaches would of simply been prevented.
@Rachel W
I wonder if you have actually read the total of the Arizona law. It specifically forbid profiling and forbids police to ask for proof of citizenship unless some other crime has been committed. If any local authority engages in “profiling” then the problem is with the people committing the profiling and not the law itself. Nowhere in this law do they say anything about a specific race, color or creed.
Since you asked me why I so passionately am opposed to illegal immigration, I would like to know why you so passionately defend it and the people who violate our laws to come here. Turn about is fair play.
Boycott the Boycotters
As bad as our national economy is, I have not heard a single word from President Obama condemning Arizona boycotts. Doesn’t he realize boycotts of Arizona will not only hurt Arizona but will also hurt the economy of the rest of the US? The Grand Canyon National Park alone attracts about two million international visitors per year.
This is just one of many Arizona SB 1070 support sites that have been put online in the last few days: http://arizonaboycotts.org BOYCOTTS WILL NOT WORK
Hi, Wizard. Actually, I haven’t been following the haggling posts at all. I was just interested in the chart, because it appears that folks in general don’t think churches should have to turn in people who might be in the country illegally. I’m actually pretty much all about putting illegal immigrants in my car, personally, as a gesture I may consider essential to exercising my religion per the first ammendment. I’m glad most folks aren’t ready to come after me with a pitchfork about it.
Sorry, that last should have been aimed at allstar. However, Rachel W, I’d still like to know why you so passionately defend people who have violated our laws. Just curious
@ Linda Ray64 You got me. That should have been addressed to someone else. I thought the name of the person writing the post was at the top and not at the bottom. Sorry.
Hi Wizardbard– Indeed I have read the law. I’m an immigration and labor lawyer. I would like to direct you to the new version of SB 1070 (enacted under HB 2162). This version requires police to determine immigration status at any “lawful stop, detention, or arrest…in the enforcement of any other law or ordinance of a county, city or town in this state.” There are two things here that are troubling: 1) lawful stop; and 2) enforcement of any ordinance.
First, under the law, any stop that is lawful is a lawful stop. Police are allowed to stop people for all kinds of reasons, many of which are not related to crimes. For example, say a person is walking down the sidewalk with shoelaces untied. It is lawful for the police to stop that person and say, “Hey, your shoelaces are untied. Be careful.” A “lawful stop” is a very broad thing. On the surface, it appears to be limited by the phrase “in the enforcement of…” but in the past courts have not defined lawful stop so narrowly and the very fact that we will have to have a court rule on this question is troubling.
Second, in explicitly saying that the enforcement of “ordinances” is one of the situations in which immigration status can be checked, lawmakers have signaled their desire to check for status for very minor violations, such as cars up on blocks in the yard. In fact, the author of the bill, Kris Kobach, suggested just this to Russell Pearce when discussing changes to SB 1070.
The law does not, as you so vehemently insist, restrict the checking of status to times when a crime is being investigated. Perhaps the greatest proof of that is that the *present* law allows police officers to inquire into immigration status when investigating crimes. Plus, once arrested, *all* people currently have their immigration status checked automatically.
Even though this law is not yet “active,” there have already been profound effects. Police in Maricopa County have taken its enactment as carte blanche to stop people *walking down the sidewalk* and ask for their legal status. My phone has been ringing off the hook with people calling for exactly this situation.
The law forbids profiling. But I ask you…how can you have a reasonable suspicion that someone is an illegal immigrant? Since I work with immigrants with varying degrees of legal status all day, let me tell you: immigrants are white, black, brown, speak English, French, Spanish, etc. So how exactly do you tell who is an immigrant? And how do you tell who is here illegally? I personally fear the police will simply assume that people who are brown are illegal immigrants. And, based on my experience so far, that appears to be exactly the case.
Indeed, I said “varying degrees of status” above because legal status is just that– a continuum. The notion that there is a bright line between legal and illegal is simply a myth. This is why you can’t say illegal immigration causes crime, degradation of infrastructure, drug smuggling– because you can’t always say who is and who isn’t an illegal immigrant. Immigration law is as complicated as the Internal Revenue Code. It often takes immigration courts years to sort out “legal” from “illegal.” So, again, if you’re worried about crime, etc., you’re barking up the wrong tree with going after the issue of immigration.
Since you are vehemently against this law, how do you suggest we handle the issue of illegal immigration? I’ve read and heard a lot about how bad this law is but I have yet to hear a plausible suggestion as to what to do about it.
Lets think about this for a second, an officer pulls over a white guy, do you think hes going to ask for Legal documents stating hes a U.S. Citizen? Lets Assume the same day he pulls over a Latino, do you think hes gonna ask for Legal documents stating hes a U.S. Citizen? Of course he is gonna ask for documentation for a Latino oppose to a white person, obviously there is racial profiling involved. This bill is aimed at profiling Latino individuals.
And the economy is not being drained by welfare and government funded programs being sucked by Latinos. You people are ignorant, the biggest drain on the economy is health care and the Military. Furthermore the country is majority white and the majority white are the ones who live on the welfare and government funded programs who don’t have health insurance who drain our healthcare. Lets be honest this bill is based on the reality that we don’t want any more Hispanics in our country, and personally i don’t want anymore either, but don’t sit here and provide all these untrue statements and facts. Just tell it like it is, we have enough brown people here, and we don’t need them to shape our culture anymore.
Basically you people are using your judgments about Latinos to draw up false facts and its ignorant, the only truth is we are racist and we don’t anymore hardworking, overpopulating Latinos in our country, ill tell it like it exactly is, the economy is phased little to nothing by immigrants, the bottom line is we just don’t want them in our country anymore. I’m not gonna sit here and give you false facts and judgments it is what it is. we are a racist country we are just to coward to admit it. Nothing against Latinos, but our way of life is reserved for us. if all white people migrated to the south they would curse our name because, its the racism that is directly involved, not the economy. Stand up and say it like it is you cowards, were racist!! there is nothing illegal about being racist! speak your mind proudly
Sorry, Mr Truth but your argument is laughable. The vast majority of those in favor of the Arizona law and against illegal immigration could care less whether we’re talking about brown people or black people or yellow people or chartreuse people with puce polka dots. Simply to play the race card is to say that you can’t think of any other way to justify your position. Presenting facts that are warped and twisted to fit your own biased viewpoint doesn’t impress me either
“…we are a racist country we are just to coward to admit it.” – Mr. Truth
That’s just about the most honest statement on this forum. The hard truth is that AZ just doesn’t like all those brown people coming across the border. Arizona is the new Alabama circa 1963.
I bet Joe Arpaio has a 24-hr rock-hard woody just anticipating all those Mexicans he can dress up in pink and put ’em to work on the chain gang.
To Mr. Driving while Brown (and I don’t really give a tinker’s d__n what color you are). In answer to your questions
I don’t use illegal drugs, never have. I don’t have any relatives or friends who do either.
Yes, I bloody well am angry about people who use cellphones to talk or text while driving. It’s against the law here in California and is extremely dangerous.
Regardless of the reason, violating the law is illegal. It is a slap in the face and a great disrespect to those who immigrated here while following the rules to even consider giving anyone who has come here illegally a path to citizenship other than leaving the US and getting line like everyone else.
Why don’t you direct your bitching and complaining at the government in those countries that the illegals come from. It’s the responsibility of those governments to raise the standard of living in those countries. If the government is corrupt, overthrow it.
Wizardbard, it’s like I’ve been saying all along. Illegal immigration isn’t the problem. The problems are crime, the recession, non-enforcement of labor laws, drug trafficking, etc. Those are complex and difficult problems that I do not know how to solve. But I do know this: fighting illegal immigration will not solve any of those problems. And it’s dangerous to think it will because then you get all wrapped up in this side issue and it deflects attention from possible solutions to the real problems. Like me, here I am spending all day trying to convince you that illegal immigrants are not the problem when I could be somehow figuring out how to stop drug trafficking.
Rachel, you just don’t seem to want to listen to what I’m saying. I never once said that illegal immigrants caused any of those problems, I said they contributed (along with many other factors) to the problems. The one undeniable fact is that people are coming here in violation of US law. They should be prosecuted and the employers who hire them should be prosecuted as well. Illegal immigration is the topic of discussion here and that’s what I and many other are focusing on.
who got to participate in these polls? Nobody I know… So it seems that if you poll only people who hate, then you’ll get the desired results. Statistics can easily be manipulated and are historically incorrect.
Sounds like they went to some area that specifically dislikes hispanics and took the poll. I don’t know anyone who had an opportunity to partake in any of these polls. I can tell you I would never vote to punish children in any way for the actions of their parents. Not let them go to school? And I get a pretty good tan in the summer. If I’m harrassed I will be quite upset. I have black hair and it’s happened in the past. Racism is un-American.
Unless you live here, you don’t know!!
Unless you live here you don’t know. They’d pull half of Tucson over if it was racial profiling. Including the police families
And yeah, their president should help his people instead of criticizing ours. Would we get the same treatment, privleges and respect in Mexico! No way.
But wizardbard, what you hate is crime and low wages, and the recession and all of that. You acknowledge that illegal immigration does not cause these things. So, now what’s wrong with illegal immigration? Just the fact that it’s illegal? You really want to spend resources on fighting something that is illegal but does not cause crime, low wages or drug trafficking? When you could spend those resources on the actual problems of crime, low wages, and drug trafficking? I’m sorry, but that’s just not rational.
Hello Rachel, when I grow up I want to be just like you! Theres no getting through wizardbard. Wow, finally the truth appears to be coming out. I can totally respect you more as a person when you can admit racism does exist, Thanks for manning up daffygrl and mr. truth.
Illegals pay payroll taxes! Ha! What nonsense. There have been enough investigations that clearly show they claim enough deductions to bring the withholding down to zero. The deductions are phony, to go along with the fake social security numbers, but what the heck. They may pay sales tax because they have no choice, but they do not pay income tax.
I’m someone that has spent over a year in Mexico traveling for adventure. I can see why the Hispanics and some other nationalities want to come here.
We were a great country 20 years ago when the middle class was great!
Our government services, health care system as well education system were not designed for the inrush of low income people.
I own a large Co. I check all information given by my employees and yet I get several employees every year that update there social security #s.
My wife is a math teacher and tells me that the schools in California, Arizona, Texas are so over burdened. At my wifes school she has 36 & 42 students in each class. 1/2 her students hardly speak english and are all on free lunch program.
The teachers don’t have the resources to handle such communication problems. Nor should they need to. Our language in the United States Of America is ENGLISH!
We shouldn’t have to make anything multi lingual except tourist information, airports. Period!
The medical system is a joke and we give people costly care that aren’t even paying taxs or send money to there homeland taking money out of our economy. Mexico has been growing and modernizing all new water and sewer systems custom homes and more money than ever is being spent in Mexico and it’s all our money paying for it.
We need to stop the inrush and start checking papers on immigrants. Call it profiling if you want. But just remember who’s causing the problem.
What we need to do to get the USA back in shape.
1. Get rid of illegals (if the parents are illegal any kid born here is illegal too)
2. Bring all the jobs we’ve sent to China back!
3. Pay China off(we owe them over a trillion $) Don’t forget there a communist country.
4. Take the power away from the pharmaceutical companies. Now a days doctors are trained by pharmaceutical companies
5. Take control of the oil companies!
They same cars we have here in other countries get substantially higher gas mileage.
When I was in Europe I rented a VW Passat and it had a very good performing diesel
engine. I averaged 57mpg! I spoke to contractors over there that drive full size vans
trucks. I found a guy that had a 2 year old dodge truck and he gets 38mpg loaded.
6. Get the insurance companies in check and make it affordable to do business here.
The fewer people that pay in raises the prices to those that do.
Kinda sounds like health insurance.
HMMM just doesn’t make since.
The bottom line is. Go back to your country and make change. Create a place you want to live and STOP taking advantage of or system. You ARE bringing the quality of life in this country down. For EVERYONE except you. You have not earned your rights therefor should have none! You have no entitlement.
Cut them off and send everyone home.
Oh yeah and look at our prison system. Look who fills the bulk population.
It doesn’t surprise me that you would be condoning and defending illegal immigration since your very lively hood depends on it. It’s also obvious to me that your mind is made up and you don’t want to be confused with the facts. Very fortunately 70 of the citizens in this country agree with what Arizona is doing and some other states are going to try to instituted the same kind of law.
Once again, you’ve intentionally misstated what I said. I did say that illegal immigration is not the only cause of all these issues but that it certainly contributes to them. I also said, in another post, that I don’t hate anyone. I just dislike lawbreakers, any lawbreakers. If you’re going to quote me, at least get it right.
As far as I’m concerned, this conversation is over for the reasons mentioned in paragraph 1.
If your response was to me then I guess you didn’t get the right view point. Yes I do have hispanics working for me. I also turn in the ones I catch. I have 658 employees and only 112 are hispanics. So no condoning going on here. Bus there asses home. I 100% back AZ!
No, my response was to Rachel W. She just doesn’t want to acknowledge the cost of illegal immigration. 27% of our prison population is here illegally. How much do you suppose it costs to house and feed them. I could quote other figures and facts but I don’t think Rachel would believe them. It seems she prefers to look at the world of illegal immigration through rose colored glasses
My response was to Rachel who seem to want to look at the world of illegal immigration through rose colored glasses. If illegal immigration how come 27% of our prison population is illegals. The cost to house and feed them is enormous. FAIR postulates that the cost of illegal immigration considering only three public assistance programs is in the Billions of dollars a year.
Below is an estimate of the fiscal cost per state of local expenditures for education of the children of illegal aliens, emergency medical care and incarceration. It should be kept in mind that these three program areas represent only a fraction of the total program costs associated with illegal residents, and they represent only local costs, not national costs.6 The total costs to the local communities could be as much as double the amount shown depending upon the extent to which this population is allowed to access other social services. In addition these estimates do not attempt to include the costs associated with services provided to Americans who are unemployed, underemployed, or working for depressed wages associated with illegal workers.
It should also be kept in mind that these cost estimates are based upon a scenario in which the current illegal immigrant population is allowed to stay in the country, additional low skilled workers are allowed to enter the country to take jobs, and true enforcement policies are not put in place to deter future illegal immigration. Alternatively, if comprehensive reform measures are adopted to deter illegal immigration and to encourage those currently in the country illegally to return to their home countries, these significantly increased cost burdens could be avoided, and over time the burden could be significantly reduced.
Current $millions 2010 $millions 2020 $millions
Alabama $112 $195 $346
Alaska $31 $54 $94
Arizona $1,300 $2,254 $3,990
Arkansas $117 $202 $356
California $10,529 $17,813 $30,727
Colorado $711 $1,217 $2,124
Connecticut $259 $441 $766
and so on and so on
LMFAO Wizardbard, clearly you’ve been brainwashed by Lou Dobs and have no capacity to to differentiate between fact and blatant misleading propaganda. 27%? seems ironic you seem to invoke your figures and facts so vehemently while not bothering to double check them. Those 27% you talk about, refers to NON-CITIZENS, not illegal immigrants NON-CITIZENS. In Lou Dobbs program, he later stated most were thought to be illegal immigrants… whoever, with no verifiable source. Just his midless rambling. Also that figure refers to FEDERAL PRISONS, not all prisons, only federal. The federal prison population being, of course, a small minority of the total prison papulation. Oh and good job citing FAIR, did your hear about their founder John Tanton and his links with openly racist groups such as the Pioneer fund. It is also well documented that his goals intentions are fighting Hispanic or otherwise Non-White immigration. Not Illegal.
O, and Kris Kobach, the author of this law, happens to have ties with FAIR.
by the way, whats up with the people here who are supposed to be in favor of the rule of law and against anything that’s illegal but at the same time support something that clearly violates the 4th amendment of the constitution. Basically by being in favor of this law you support the state doing something illegal yet claim to be against anything illegal. I dunno, but some people call it hypocrisy. The 4th amendment clearly states that people are protected from unreasonable search and seizures unless a warrant is issued for probable cause. Being brow is not a probable cause, and being stopped for being brown is very unreasonable. Which is exactly what this law encourages. Now, that is simply my personal opinion. Whoever when the courts strike it down for being unconstitutional (aka. ILLEGAL) I’d say it will say a lot about the anti anti illegal immigration movement and their blatant hypocrisy.
Oh, and anybody out there who thinks children of illegal immigrants born in the US are not citizens, well, as much as it might hurt, fact is, they are. And there is nothing you can do about it.
Oh wizardbard. My livelihood does not depend on illegal immigrants. If people are truly and undeniably illegal, there is nothing I can do for them so I do not accept them as clients.
I think your figures are unreliable, to say the least, but, what the heck, let’s go with them. 27% of the prison population is made up of illegal immigrants. Does that seem to you to be a large percentage? Because, to me it says that 73% of the prison population is made up of either citizens or legal immigrants. So, clearly, the majority of people in prison are not illegal immigrants. Now, you ask, what about the cost of feeding and housing them? Well, the alternative is to deport them. However, deportation does not have wide support because of the perception that, once deported, people simply return.
And by the way, those folks in prison who do not have legal status– they will be deported once their prison term is over. They are handed over directly to ICE. Sure, they might come back, but, you know, the guy who knocks off the liquor store down the street will *certainly* come back if he is a US Citizen. Nothing you can do about that.
Immigrants (legal and illegal) have always been blamed for all the problems that plague our society. If you look back at the Chinese Exclusion Act, it’s aimed squarely at people who were perceived to be taking “American” jobs in building railroads. But it’s a chimera– immigration is a tool to keep your mind from questioning deeper problems. By pinning all of our problems on “illegal immigrants,” it keeps you from delving into what causes crime, why drug trafficking exists, why labor laws are violated.
Oh my. Enough for the evening. Wizardbard, you can rail against illegal immigration as much as you want to. But none of the problems of which you complain will ever be solved by fighting illegal immigration. Furthermore, you will never stop illegal immigration. So continue in your crusade, no matter how pointless. I’d write you off as harmless except that it is exactly your viewpoint that fosters hate in our state.
And, allstar, aw shucks. Let’s work together to put an end to all this racism. It took a lot of pain and suffering to get through the Civil Rights era (which didn’t even result in anything resembling equality), but we can stand together and hold each other up.
I STRONGLY URGE all citizens of Arizona to start taking photos of cops with white people…then suing them if them don’t ask for ID. Those people could be illegal immigrants from FRANCE! We must stop these illegal white people from invading our country…even if it means every legally born white citizen of Arizona must be hassled 2-3 times a day!
To Geckoman, you dont know what you’re talking about. For one, you need everyone here in this country, this country cannot do it alone without the illegal immigrants. Everyone plays an important role in this country, it doesn’t matter what language people speak or what culture they are. Everyone has a right to be here in the U.S. and if you dont like that well then why in the world would you still be here? if you don’t like the way this country is, then get out! Leave, just go somewhere else where you think might be better than the U.S. because i asure you that there is no better place than the U.S. but if you dont like it here, then get out of my country! What if someone came up to you and told you that you could no longer live here and all because of your race or ethnicity? This is something that should’ve never happend, because this country needs every culture, race, language, ethnicity. Every individual has a right to speak there own language, and you know it. Maybe the reason why you dont like it is because you cant speak spanish or any other foreign language; And i really agree with LostSok, i wish they would get stopped, but you know that would never happen because they’re white.
POINT: YOU NEED TO LOOK AT YOURSELF.. MOST OF YOU ARE ILLEGAL.. THIS WAS STOLEN LAND! THE NATIVE TRIBES OWNED IT.. YOU ALL CAME OVER ON UR BOATS AND DID A HOSTILE TAKE OVER..LIKE THEY ARE DOING AGAIN IN IRAQ AFGHANISTAN!!! THIS IS JUST THE 2ND COMING OF THE SAME OLD POLITICAL GAIN CRAP!! OF GREED, HATE, & RACIST THAT STILL LINGERS IN POLITICIANS HOUSE HOLDS!! AND IS JUST A DISTRACTION OF THE REAL GREED WAR OVER OIL!
Last time. Here’s the link to a report from the Congressional Budget Office regards the financial effects of illegal immigration. It takes into consideration SS taxes paid but which will never be collected, income taxes paid by illegal workers and other income from “illegals”. It also takes into consideration all expenses to various state to provide support services (school services, medical services, police service) to those in the state without documentation. Take it for what it’s worth.
http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/87xx/doc8711/12-6-Immi…
Actually, I lied. One more thing. I’ve traveled extensively in Mexico on business as a field service engineer. I even speak poquito espanol. I figured that, if I was going to spend time in Mexico, I should learn to speak at least enough of the local language to get a conversation started. I also speak a little German, French and Tahitian for the same reason. I have great respect for the Mexican people and their culture.
That being said, I never traveled anywhere in Mexico (or any other foreign country for that matter) without carrying my passport at all times because I knew that I could be stopped at anytime for any reason and be required to show it. I did this without any complaint or regret because that was the local law and I did what was required of me. I knew that, if I didn’t have proper documentation, I could potentially be placed in custody and maybe never heard from again. That’s just the way it is. Mexico’s immigration laws and anti immigration laws are far more serious than we have here. First offense for being in the country illegal is 2 years in the slammer. Second offense is 10 years.
Right. Did you read this study, Wizardbard? Because it says that the effects are “modest” and that the state and local spending on unauthorized immigrants is a small percentage of the total amount spent.
Yes, I did read it and it said, if I remember correctly, that the states are paying out more in social services to illegal immigrants than they are contributing taxes, regardless of what the total amount is. One more time, I never said that Illegal Immigration was the one and only cause of any of our financial problems. I’ve maintained all along, however, that illegal immigration is one contributing factor and ALL of the factors must be taken into consideration
First of all, for all you people complaining about how illegal immigration are coming into this country, and forcing you to feel sorry for them because Mexico basically sucks. Then you need a reality check. Most of you don’t even know what its like to live in poverty your whole life. Your so privileged you don’t even think about how other people don’t have food, shelter or water. We, the United States of America, are the ones who screwed up Mexico’s government and economy. Our big businesses took away all the jobs. What do you expect them to do? Stay there and starve to death? Aren’t we (United Citizens) always boosting about how America is a free rich land? Wouldn’t you expect Mexicans that are living in poverty to want to come here to have a better life? I bet if you were living in Mexico and living in poverty, you would want to come here too. So stop being judgmental.
Oh and one last thing. You guys think that they are taking away all our jobs. Well… no they aren’t. The jobs that they do get are usually jobs that NO US Citizen would want only if it was the very last thing. And then they still wouldn’t want it. The people that higher the Mexicans to do the work at wherever job it is, pay them so little because they know that they can’t complain and that they’ll do it anyways. Any American with that job would refuse to be paid so little, and the manager/owner wouldn’t higher them anyways because they would know that the American would want more pay than what he/she is willing to pay them. That why all of our fruits are so cheap (during a good season).
Hey BobbyGeorge, stop speeding, there, problem solved
Interesting poll. I live in Austin TX and we have lots of illegals. You can’t round all of them up and actually I could care less if they stay since it’s impossible to control them but I don’t want to support them. I think that is reasonable. Why should my tax dollars support them if they aren’t putting into the system? America is in crisis in large part due to this – our backs are being broken. Maybe if for once America started saying NO they would either contribute to the system or get the hell out. When did we start supporting such blatant breaking of laws? I hope Texas enacts SB 1070 because at some point we have to start insisting on accountability.
@electricgreen
In case you haven’t noticed America is in crisis. We can’t support our own much less illegals. They don’t necessarily take our jobs but they use our systems and that costs tax dollars. Do the math. Crime rates in cities like Houston are up because of crimes by illegals – yep that costs us money too. Illegals need to get legal and contribute to the good ole America system or get out. We aren’t all that rich anymore.
I dont get it. The White Man was illegal in this country as well. What was their excuse? Manifest Destiny? Fine. We’ll use your own answer.
Most of the individuals commenting on this site are NOT Arizonans’. Come here and walk in our shoes…….we pay our state taxes that fund these free programs for illegals. I am not against the Hispanic population nor do I condemn their freedoms but I do condemn our state funding for all of these programs. Yes, for the most part, the Hispanic’s are very hard working individuals and I commend them for their efforts and self integrity. But the law is the law! Any illegal immigrant needs to follow the proper methodology in gaining citizenship in the U.S.
If you go outside of the U.S. you must show proper documentation in most every other country and you can be asked to show the gov’t authorities that question your status, (Mexico, Canada, Cuba, Venezuela etc.) So before you people start criticizing our
state law, READ the bill or stay out of our state!!!!
first of all Freedom for “Zonies”
I DO Live in Arizona. And MOST Arizonians are AGAINST this bill. And stop telling people to stop criticizing the bill just because they don’t like it. They have a right to feel however they want about it and express what ever they want. We DO have freedom of speech, so they can say whatever they like. Just because you might not agree with them doesn’t mean they can’t say anything.
GET THEM OUT IF THEY ARE HERE ILLEGALLY!!!
@ electricgreen To say that the majority of Arizonans are against this bill is either a flat out lie or, at the very least, a gross distortion of the facts. The majority of Arizonans are for this bill as are the majority of those in the US who, by the way, VOTE!!!
@ aiden No, the white man wasn’t in the country illegally because there were no immigration laws at the time. And don’t say I’m racist or anti American Indian because, in point of fact, I think what the European Immigrants did to the Indians, and are still doing to them, was indefensible and dispicable.
Okay, people; New poster-as a matter of fact, almost a virgin to the entires forum, blogs, etc. scene-from way up north in Idaho. My former wife was (retired this year) an elementary-school teacher. Due to the economy in general, Idaho has had forced reductions in their school budgets for a couple of years now, cumulating in “emergency” teachers’ salaries cuts for THIS fiscal year. Yet the admitted “third rail” of the education budgets is the Limited English Proficiency program. I am basically a man with a simple method of logic, but why must my country (state OR county) cater to people who come into our country and-for whatever reason, be it “Cultural Pride” or some abstraction-not even bother to learn or use what is given to be the national language? Why are rapidly dwindling tax dollars being used to put a translator in every classroom, at taxpayer expense?
I am unaware-and really don’t care to do the Internet “research” to find out and appear more learned than I actually AM-when the English language BECAME our native tongue, but it IS. Interestingly, I have a couple of “hispanic” (unsure of their country of origin, because the subject has never came up!) friends who ASSURE me that people who are in THEIR country/area for any length of time who do NOT learn the dialect of Spanish THEY speak are seen as “disrespectful”. My personal opinion is that EITHER of those ideas (in re their respective languages) are EXTREME. However, it is pretty basic math to see that the American public is more than happy to spend tax funds that are to be used to educate their OWN children to “help” those of persons who are not considerate enough to learn English.
As nearly as I can tell, most of the “pro-illegal immigrants” (I use this term in quotes because I myself am not comfortable with labeling ANY group so generally) seem distressed that legal immigrants might be stopped and harrassed by police looking for ILLEGAL immigrants. The “all hispanics….” part of this argument does NOT seem wholly unreasonable to me! However, it is NOT something I can understand. Since I am NOT hispanic, allow me a quick analogy; I am an old, balding, white guy, with what appears to be a beer-belly (even though I don’t care for the taste of beer at all). Let’s assume for a moment that Arizona has decided that a portion of their financial probelms are caused by old, bald, white guys with beer-bellies. I am playing golf at the Wigwam when a BOLO goes out for an old bald white guy with a beer-belly who has (notice that I try to keep the crime at about the same level as illegal entry into the country) cursed at two little old ladies who are playing too slow in front of him and his group.
The forces of law and order arrive, spot ME, and decide to question ME. Let’s see: I fit the general description and am in the general area where the crime took place. Okay, the police question me and the two litle old ladies and, guess what? It wasn’t me. So they let me go. This doesn’t sound like stereotyping to me, it just sounds like cops trying to stop some old white bald guy with a beer-belly from breaking the law.
While it may seem I have had more than a single statement, it is simply a bifurcated one. If you are IN the United States legally (regardless whether by birth or by naturalization OR by work-visa) why do you feel so persecuted if the police stop you during an investigation to ask for your I.D./proof of citizenship? Frankly, were I a hispanic who WAS here legally (by any manner) I would be far MORE offended by my countrymen who chose a more expeditious, albeit illegal, manner, than this old bald white guy is!
By the way; one thing I have noted in regards to “replies” to posts is the tendency to berate a poster for his/her proper use of language and/or spelling. I do NOT proofread what I write. I lean a bit toward the prolix, anyway. Should you feel it necessary to dismiss my opinion(s) offhand, so be it! This is a free-and relatively opinionated, apparently-country. However, I think persons who bother to post THEIR opinions for others to see-be it myself or any others-deserve better than to be berated for either their keyboarding OR grammatical skills!
WOW! Drivingwhilebrown: “The ends justifies the means!?! That’s a VERY scary argument for “immigration reform”, dude
@freedom for “Zonies”; surely you jest, man! “READ the bill….” Why? I watched a Congressional Hearing televised earlier this week where the Attorney General (You know; the guy who’s going to take “legal action” against your state in re this law?) said HE hadn’t read it. Why should anybody else? Oh, BTW: He said he hadn’t been “briefed” on it, either. But yet he was sure it was hard-core racist! Understandable, though: He’s a VERY BUSY man, and the law IS a FULL ten pages!!!
His BOSS, however, says he personally doesn’t want some “innocent American citizen” harrassed while taking his child in for an ice cream cone. It HAS been a while since I’ve been down to Arizona (Love the Gold Course at the Wigwam in Litchfield Park!), but I don’t remember either purchasing an ice cream cone, or traveling to and from to purchase said ice cream cone to be an illegal activity. See, I HAVE read the law. It’s available on several FOX News sites (and I’m sure others, too), but it doesn’t show anything I feel that a truly rational person could extrapolate out into racist. If your bent is in that direction anyway, OF COURSE you can. I don’t really have any specific feelings one way or the other on some-one, based solely on their race/skin color.
I’ll give you folks an example; although I doubt it will change the mind of anyone who is already convinced that the law IS racist, ergo, anyone FOR the law is racist, it’s just kind of putting my two cents in: A few years back I was an Electrician. I “specialized” in repairs to existing systems. Within the city in which I live, there is an old (ancient?) downtown area filled with small retail shops. I frequently handled sometime substantial electrical repairs to several of these buildings. To accomodate these people and their businesses, I would do the bulk of these repairs well after closing when the downtown area was virtually deserted. I always called the local Police Department and let the Watch Officer know who I was, where I would be, etc. Note that I did NOT say “usually” or “sometimes”, but ALWAYS. Despite this, it was extremely rare that I made it through an entire night’s work without at least ONE visit from a local gendarme. While I suppose I could have always made some sort of stink because they were “profiling” me as a person who was in a business WAY after its posted hours, I found it easier-and much more civilized-simply to show my I.D., speak to the officer for a few minutes, and, when necessary, wait until he called my identity in to the station and confirmed I had a right to be there.
People, I’ll give it to you straight. All this “profiling” rant is BS! Neither Arizona nor any other state is currently being over-run and overburdened by illegal Norwegian immigrants! If it WERE, my opinion of the SB 1070 would be the same as it is now. In favor! NOT because I’m a racist! NOT because I hate Norwegians (or hispanics)! BECAUSE THIS COUNTRY’S ECONOMY IS IN SOME SERIOUS S**T! If you are against the law and believe everyone should be allowed to just flood into our country from every other nation until it is literally bursting at the seams, then SAY SO! Rachel W; if you are against the law because you feel it might harm your income from your legal office, then SAY SO! Hell; both THOSE things I can understand! PLEASE; just quit playing O.J.’s RACE CARD!!! You’ve worn the g*******d SPOTS off it!
It’s about we send the Mexicans packing! The AMERICAN people have spoken, we dont want you here!
It is absolutely clear to me that trying to carry on an intelligent discussion with the pro illegal immigration is a total waste of time because their minds are made up and they don’t want to be confused with the facts. Here is what I suggest. Contact all your local, state and federal elected officials and demand
1. Seal the border so no more illegals can enter
2. Come up with some foolproof way to determine if someone is in the country legally and has the right to work here (E-verify, citizenship card, what ever).
3. Require that all employers use this card to determine right to work
4. Heavily fine any employer who is found to be hiring “illegals”
5. Revoke the “birth right” clause in the 14th amendment of the Constitution
Tell them that, if these demands are not met, you won’t vote for them even if they are running for dog catcher. Since the one over riding motivation for any politician is to be elected or re-elected and he or she will do or be anything the majority or the public wants them to do or be in order to be re-elected and enough people make these demands, something will be done. When the jobs are unavailable, all or the vast majority of the people in the country illegally will self deport.
@racer42; your idea is both laconic AND very workable! The government is perfectly capable of making a (very difficult to counterfeit) WORK or CITIZENSHIP card! Any business found to be employing persons without this card should be subject to EXTREME penalties/fines. Forget about this “I didn’t KNOW, officer! He/she SAID they were in the country legally!” Within one year’s time, there won’t BE any work for illegals, and they will return to their homelands, be it Mexico OR Norway!
Section 1 of the Fourteenth amendment need not actually BE “revoked”, per se. The amendment’s first section, taken in context with the time of its enactment, is clear to even a LUCID person’s reading. Organized slavery in the United States has been over for a good number of years, I hear! Children born to American parents residing-temporarily or otherwise-on foreign soil would be covered under right-of-the parents citizenship. Person or persons unknown have “defined” this section to support their purpose. Simply define it properly, uphold that definition in the Court system, and be done with it AND the “anchor babies”!
I WILL write my state and federal elected officials. I do NOT know whether or not they will read it!
I do NOT like being labeled a racist simply because I support a law, and THAT fact has actually angered me well beyond what the actual premise for the law does! I am old enough to have seen Selma police fire-hosing blacks who gathered to protest, I was in a couple of Southern states (with my parents) when they had “colored” drinking fountains: I SAW THEM! I listened to MLK’s “I have a dream” speech! This crap about “racial profiling”, “racists”, “Mexican-haters” is something that comes out of the wrong end of the bull! I’ve SEEN discrimination and racism! Don’t you stupid under-forty b******s tell me a cop asking somebody to prove that they are in this country by legal means is discrimination OR racism, I don’t give a diddly-damn WHAT their “color” is!
As for the boycotters: they go BEYOND fools to DAMNED fools! Do you idiots think your financial “punishment” effects ONLY white people? There’s a PLAN: Help somebody who may OR may NOT agree with any aspect of the debate lose their job!
Here’s the thing; you disagree with me, hey; fine! I’m good with that. Free country! Just tell me you think I’m an a*****e; I can work with that. But stop calling either me OR others who support this law racists! The VAST majority don’t know what the hell the word REALLY means!
I know many Mexican citizens. Here is a cold hard fact for you right from a Mexican citizen’s mouth. “Those illegals you guys have to deal with are the bottom of the barrel.” “Mexico doesn’t even want them back.” I seems the further you drive south into Mexico, the people get more and more reasonable and more middle class. It is unfortunate that the US gets these bottom dwellers, but that what’s happening.
I asked some guys on http://immigration.civiltalks.com/ , and the majority of them agree.
The plucky Carolyn Classen over at the Mark Evans/Gannett chat room was able to get out some breaking news:
“What Happens in Arizona Stops in Arizona.”
Here’s the link she provides:
http://www.aclu.org/what-happens-arizona-s…
developing…
hey, Red Star, nice self portrait. I’ll be your brain matches it.
Hey, racer42:
“People: 1) Knock it off with the name-calling. Your comments will be deleted if they aren’t at least somewhat civil. 2) Please read your comments–maybe even spell-check them–and realize how … well, dumb some of you look. Grammar, spelling … these things are important, and you don’t help your case if your comments read like they were written by a sleepy third-grader. Thank you.
(Posted by Jimmy Boegle on May 11, 2010 at 10:44 PM)
Regards,
Red Star
How about your comments that read as if they’re from someone who supports illegal activity. The ACLU is way, way out of line with this one. Since the law in Arizona mirrors federal law, may the ACLU should sue the US government. They’ll get really far with than. I think they should change they’re name to Anti-American Civil Liberties Union.
Didn’t realize you were the editor and that you were commenting on my comment to his comments. The previous message should have been directed at Red Star. My apologizes. I will try to carry on a more civil and intelligent conversation in the future. It just really frosts me when someone tries to justifies illegal immigration and I just went off the deep end a little. Won’t happen again.
“How about your comments that read as if they’re from someone who supports illegal activity.” (Posted by racer42 on May 17, 2010 at 2:16 PM )
Well, racer42, why don’t you report your suspicions of Red Star to law enforcement…
Are you scared?
‘cmon: go for it…make Red Star’s day!
This would be interesting…
@Red Star: Congratulations, Dude! You even scare ME!
I’m still trying to get my head around this whole BOYCOTT ARIZONA thing:
(A) To “punish” Arizona’s residents for a law which was legally enacted, a presumably large group of people from OUTSIDE the state is going to withhold money which they would normally SPEND in/with Arizona. I believe that is the gravemen for the boycott, correct?
(B) This boycott will be imposed across-the-board to ALL businesses in Arizona, with a complete indifference as to the business/owner’s personal “slant” on the law itself? Or was some sort of mass-mailing planned to determine each business/owner’s opinion of the law? Sounds kind of like “profiling” to me, but surely it’s NOT!
(C) This boycott will-through some sort of financial extortion, or threat of bankruptcy-cause Arizonians to somehow magically make a duly enacted law, trying to prevent a particular crime, go away?
Okay; Ah ain’t 2 smart in all a this lej-is-lation stuff, but;
When the financial integrity of a business is either stopped or seriously reduced, the BOSS is NOT the one who is layed off! It is the E-M-P-L-O-Y-E-E-S. You CAN cut off your nose and it WILL spite your face. However; VERY FEW people will go to this extreme!
Since I do not LIVE in Arizona, what the rest of the country/world does to try to “punish” them is not something that would really concern me.
However, if I may point out what seems to be a VERY obvious point (at least to ME). In the-in MY opinion highly unlikely-event that such a boycott was, to any degree, successful, employees on the lower end of the business’ work-force (i.e., laborers) would be laid off. For either natural born OR naturalIZED workers, there would be unemployment to at least HELP compensate for the punishment THEY would receive for their EMPLOYER’S perceived sin. For others……..
Now; would one of you people who WANT the boycott please prove HOW much smarter than me you are by explaining how this would “help” the illegal immigrants?
I said supports, not aids and abets. There’s a big different. While supporting illegal activity is immoral and reprehensible, it’s not illegal. I just can’t agree with your “let em all in” philosophy.
racer42: Been to http://immigration.civiltalks.com/?p=1&cpa…
They’ve got some really “interesting” takes on SB 1070 over there!
I’ve decided that posting in these forums is a huge waste of time. There’s not a single person on any of these forums whose mind isn’t already made up and doesn’t want to e confused with the facts. They say that figures never lie and liars never figure and it seems to be true here. Each side can twist facts to fit their own perception of the issue. That lady Dee on the site you linked to is a real piece of work. The only thing that will change her mind is if she gets robbed and/or raped by some illegal immigrant. I really hope the courts rule in Arizona’s favor and allows the law to take effect. Maybe that will shake the federal govt loose and convince them that they have been shirking their responsibilities for far too long and it’s bloody well time they took action to stem the invasion.
@racer42: Understandable, friend! I tired of the woman you referred to AND her race-baiting after only a couple of days: Simply wrote her off.
While I am basically in agreement with you, these forums are providing me with a very frightening aspect which I have not noticed before yet appears in a good percentage of the group who define themselves as “latinos”. THEY seem to do a considerable amount of what they refer to as “profiling” themselves. Against Americans! My observations are that-for the MOST part (not absolutely, but predominantly) this feeling of “bad” Americans seems to transcend whether or not these profilers are here legally or not. I find their general moderate malevolence against the members of a country that either they OR their parents voluntarily came into to be……interesting(?) in and of itself.
I would stop short of saying it feels almost “bigoted” to me, but I find it a troubling sort of attitude.
While I AM in agreement with you-especially regarding the twisting of facts (yes; on BOTH sides!) I believe I will sort of “mill around” a bit and see just how weird things can get! You seem to me to be a fairly learned individual and I will miss your commentary. Adios, amigo!
Oh, I still intend to browse the various boards and make occasional commentary when called for but to keep trying to change people minds that are set in concrete just causes frustration and gives me a headache. I did enjoy tweaking Dee just a bit and notice that she didn’t bother to reply.
GOOD FOR ARIZONA !! It’s about time SOMEBODY steps up with some stones against our border problem. I’m a Texan, and wish all border states would stand by Arizona. What ever happened to States ‘ Rights ? You, Mr. Prez, want to appease our enemies to take a stand where it counts. You’ll let the BAD GUYS steal YOUR lunch, but the States are fed up with it ! The Feds have turned a blind eye too long. WHAT ARE THEY AFRAID OF ??
READ THE LAW, THEN SPEAK ABOUT YOUR IGNORANCE. You still haven’t done that Mr. Prez. If you are concerned about profiling, have you really read the law? To all others, READ THE LAW !
@racer42: Glad to see you’re still around. Dee is allergic to logic. She’s all “KKK volunteer goons”, views Sheriff Joe as the Antichrist, and has had several other posters suggest she RETURN to the “old country”. If I remember right, one even offered to pay for her bus ticket! If you use large words, she seems to go into “quote” mode (some of which are EVEN relevant!), so keep the syllables in your words to a minimum and you can get her to spit!
You and I are in lock-step as far as changing peoples minds that are “set in concrete! However, I am starting to notice what I see as sort of a psychological/social phenomenon: The group of people PRIMARILY who oppose the law are of either a former or partial Mexican descent. While I am not really SURPRISED by this attitude (Hell! I can even UNDERSTAND it!), I will admit as to being a little confused by ONE thing: How they honestly (and I am NOT being facetious, here!) feel they can cry “racism” and “bigotry” on all those who SUPPORT the law while simultaneously decrying the theory that ALL the (white, or at least non-hispanic) Americans HATE the Mexicans/hispanics. Doesn’t this seen quite paradoxical?
Don’t get me wrong: some-one being superficial enough to hate ME simply because of my color or nationality doesn’t bother me in the slightest. I WOULD say they could kiss my fat, white a**, but I don’t want to have to be bothered to turn around! I LIKE being a natural-born American, and I’m not necessarily PROUD of being white, but I’m not “ashamed” of it! It just seems almost like they’re saying “How DARE you paint me with the same brush I use to paint YOU!”
Anyway; “debating” on an intellectual level with these pro-illegal alien types is about as “sporting” as hunting CATTLE, but they ARE kind of fun to “observe”, you know? Adios, amigo!
I suppose we could always amuse ourselves by going out and going some cow tipping.
@Americanwm55: States DO still have “rights” under this administration! They have the right to provide “free” medical care/treatment, “free” translators for children non-proficient in Ingles, subsidized housing, Aid-TO-Dependent-Children (in MY state that’s “food stamps”, et al), public lands for agricultural development (Marijuana fields), AND–coming-soon-to-a-San Francisco-near-you!–“residential voting rights”. MY State “charges” the illegal aliens families ONE or more anchor babies, but that’s not something they seem TOO have much trouble coming up with! THAT’S whaterver happened to your “states’ rights!”
By the way: If I sound pissed? I was stupid enough to VOTE for “this administration”!!! Que? Mea culpa, Arizona!!! Sorry!
WHAT is with the TEA BAGGERS and the ALL CAPS and turning COMPOUND WORDS like “hogwash” into TWO SEPARATE WORDS like HOG WASH? It would Be COMICAL if it were NOT so VERY TRAGIC. GET out of the Country all you ILL EGALS! We need to SEAL the BORDERS right now!! HOWEVER WE have MISPLACED our BORDER SEAL ANT, so until we FIND it, SB 1070 WILL have to DO!
Here’s an example of the kind of liberal idiot politician that we have to deal with here in California. This is in response to an email that I sent regards supporting Arizona’s illegal immigration law.
Dear Mr. Serkin:
I am appalled by Arizona’s new law, which requires police to demand “papers” from people they stop who they suspect are not authorized to be in the United States. This new mandate is a flagrant violation of First Amendment rights. Not only does this law infringe on the free speech rights of day laborers and others in Arizona, but it also invites racial profiling against people of color by law enforcement in violation of the equal protection guarantee. The law violates the prohibition on unreasonable seizures under the 14th and Fourth Amendments. In addition, the law will have the effect of making immigrant populations distrustful of authorities, making them less likely to come forward as victims or as witnesses to crime.
I am pleased that some of the largest civil rights groups have united to challenge this ill-conceived law, and I will openly speak against any similar legislation proposed in the House of Representatives.
Sincerely,
Pete Stark
Member of Congress
Now here is some cold, hard facts. The only people who are against this law are
1. People who are in the country illegally
2. People who are in the country legally but have relatives and/or friends who are here illegally.
3. The Catholic Church which has been loosing members left and right over the sex scandals and subsequent coverups.
4. The Democrats who figure that, since most of the illegals would vote Democratic, they’ll sneak some sort of amnesty bill through. They could care less about Latinos other than their votes.
5. Various and sundry bleeding heart liberals. You know the type. They would say that terrorists attacks on the US and our troops are all our own fault rather than the ignorant terrorists and those who support them.
@racer42: Is it possible there exists some OTHER S.B. 1070 which says things that perhaps the one WE read ommitted? It astounds me that members of Congress, who have fine-tuned semantics until they do NOT “lie”, but merely “mis-speak”, can be having trouble reading a document that–it would SEEM–requires no more than perhaps a sixth-grade level ability.
BTW: Learned a new sobriquet for what I have been (perhaps improperly, as I am new to discussions pertaining to ethnic judgements!) referring to as “race-baiters”. Saw the term today used on another forum: “….race pimps….” Kind of fits, I think!
@racer42: Damn! Let one of the race pimps REALLY get to me on the other site! Just got too damned tired of the CONSTANT “….racist, rednecks, inbred bunch of….” comments from the other point of view!
Idiots rant and rave against EVERYONE who supports S.B. 1070 on a PERSONAL level rather than argue the facts–or even just OPINIONS–themselves.
One of ’em really got me angry! Said some very bad words and incorrectly assumed that these damned sites were either filtered OR self-censoring. I know now that they aren’t, of course, and probably came off LOOKING a bit like a “….racist, redneck, etc. etc. etc.” Pissed-off at MYSELF now, and think I’ll take a day or to off these things to “cool down” a bit.
Arguing with these “open border” types reminds me a of an old saying an Uncle of mine had about pointless tasks: “It’s as ridiculous as trying to teach a pig to bowl! All you accomplish is to piss the pig off PLUS it wastes your time!”
Anyway; I’ve always prided myself on not letting ANYBODY cause me to lose my temper and now I’m pretty damned mad at myself that I did! Be back in a couple of days. Hang in there!
71% against SB 1070? Why is this poll so different than all the other polls? Last I heard, 85% of Americans are in FAVOR of SB 1070!
the US Supreme Courts ruling on Muehler v Mena, was 9-0.
For the mathematically challenged liberals, that means all 9 of the Supreme Court Justices ruled in favor of allowing police to question someone on their legal status, without any pre-qualifications. That means, even the moderate to ultra liberal Justices on the Supreme Court at the time, ruled in favor of this (2005).
By the way, seems to me a ‘Constitutional Law Professor’ such as Obamanation claims to be would know all this. It would also seem the highest ranking Law Enforcement Officer in the Country, the US Attorney General, would also know this.
They both should know the US Supreme Court has ruled on stopping and asking people questions, like their legal immigration status and it is perfectly legal and Constitutional.
Folks: Keep it civil. Some of you are crossing the line, or coming close to it. The next person who makes a reference to “mathematically challenged” anything is outta here.
I can’t believe I’m jumping back into this, but, racer42, you’re not correct. The holding of Muehler v Mena is not that police can ask someone’s immigration status “without any pre-qualifications.” What it says is that because Mena’s original detention was lawful, there was no need for an independent basis on which to question her immigration status. Therefore, this case refers to a situation where someone who is lawfully detained– because of some non-immigration reason– is then questioned about immigration status.
What SB1070 (revised under HB2162) allows is for the *initial* contact to be about immigration. The text of the statute:
FOR ANY LAWFUL STOP, DETENTION OR ARREST MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR A LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY OF THIS STATE OR A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR A LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY OF A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS STATE IN THE ENFORCEMENT OF ANY OTHER LAW OR ORDINANCE OF A COUNTY, CITY OR TOWN OR THIS STATE WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN AND IS UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES, A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE MADE, WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE PERSON […]
First, under the law, any stop that is lawful is a lawful stop. Police are allowed to stop people for all kinds of reasons, many of which are not related to crimes. For example, say a person is walking down the sidewalk with shoelaces untied. It is lawful for the police to stop that person and say, “Hey, your shoelaces are untied. Be careful.” A “lawful stop” is a very broad thing. On the surface, it appears to be limited by the phrase “in the enforcement of…” but in the past courts have not defined lawful stop so narrowly and the very fact that we will have to have a court rule on this question is troubling.
Second, in explicitly saying that the enforcement of “ordinances” is one of the situations in which immigration status can be checked, lawmakers have signaled their desire to check for status for very minor violations, such as cars up on blocks in the yard. In fact, the author of the bill, Kris Kobach, suggested just this to Russell Pearce when discussing changes to SB 1070.
The law does not, as you so vehemently insist, restrict the checking of status to times when a crime is being investigated. Perhaps the greatest proof of that is that the *present* law allows police officers to inquire into immigration status when investigating crimes. Plus, once arrested, *all* people currently have their immigration status checked automatically.
[I pasted in the last bit from my earlier post…god, I keep repeating myself here. Must. Stop. Looking. At. These. Comments. ]
Rachel W. When your right, your right. My bad. I cut a pasted this from another discussion group and failed due diligence regards it’s veracity. Having investigated further, I see the facts behind this ruling. Hope you don’t pass out because I’ve agreed with you on something
Someone finally woke up Obama. He’s sending 1200 National Guard troops to the Arizona border. About time
Rachel W. I hope that I didn’t shock you into complete silence by agreeing with you about something.
Here’s something Arizona could use
http://www.blueservo.net/
@SOCIALPROUD: THE most complete and–by a head and shoulders–most eloquent posting on this OR any other blog in re the S.B. 1070 topic I HAVE SEEN!
EVERY point in your post is supportable through either United States history or simple common sense. The portion of land-mass on which our country sits is finite! So is our country’s citizens’ ability to “help” others, regardless their needs!
I have never been and will never BE a racist! I am the OTHER “r”-word. I’m a realist! I have meant a few others in these posts, but not many. Obviously, you are easily the most well-written (including MYSELF). I have been trying–with very little success–to argue basically the same point YOU have. It’s NOT an ideology, people; it is a NECESSITY! IMO; this is a “just” law. However, it is NOT up to individuals within our society to “obey” laws based on their individual opinions of those laws! This law will attempt to correct a shortcoming in the federal government’s border “policy”. AT LEAST GIVE THE DAMNED THING A CHANCE to TRY and work, before you condemn it!!!!!!!!!!
Let’s boil this whole thing down to bare bones basics
1. Every country on this planet has the right, I repeat the right, to set it’s own borders and to defend them
2. Every country has the right to set it’s own immigration policy and then, having done that, the responsibility to enforce it. Virtually every country on the planet does this except the US.
3. Anyone who violates the immigration laws of a country, repeat anyone, only has the right to be prosecuted according to the laws of that country and deported. Again, virtually every country on the planet does this except the US.
There can be no discussion about the above because it’s all fact and cannot be argued or changed.
Also, I’m getting really sick and tired of the so called Native American Indians and the so called African Americans bitching and complaining about things that happened 200 years ago. Yes, slavery was deplorable and there is not defense for it (remembering that slavery has been rampant throughout the civilized and un civilized worlds for centuries and still exists in some countries today) and the genocide perpetrated on the Native American Indians in the name of Manifest Destiny is also deplorable and indefensible. However, as I said, these things occurred 200 years ago, get over it. Move on.
You know, in all this conversation, I have yet to see anyone mention the thousands of people who live below the poverty line who are US citizens. Maybe we should worry about them first before we try to take care of the entire world’s downtrodden poor.
@wizardbard: You never WILL see anyone mention those (American citizens), either. Such logic could really “distract” from the main point that we ALL despise Mexicans, Latinos (fill in this blank). To argue AGAINST a law plainly enacted to PROTECT the legal citizens of our country is so patently illogical that it’s really best (damned sure easiest!) just to say anyone in favor of S.B. 1070 is a racist bigotted Nazi bastard who also MUST support genocide and probably HATES KITTENS!. And is–without question!–white, with no knowledge of the deplorable conditions in (nation of choice goes here), yada, yada, yada.
If it weren’t for the fact that a few people such as yourself have a real GRASP of the problem, I would be done with these forums entirely. I’m sure I could go into any bar in town and start a bitch-session or biased argument that would be a LOT easier on my old fingers!
This morning Red Star was over at a local chain grocery store and noticed a vehicle having a black-on-white bumper sticker that read “I COULD BE ILLEGAL.” Red Star thought that was pretty cool but felt it should read “I MIGHT BE ILLEGAL.”
Anyway, when she came out of the store, Red Star reinforced her for her action and she said, “Yeah, I got it at Peace Supply. They’re online, here in Tucson, but I didn’t have to do that to get it.” At which point Red Star decided to not pursue the distinction between “COULD” and “MIGHT.” She closed with, “They have t-shirts and bike stickers, too.”
It’s all good.
Everyone: Comments posted that imply that a whole group of people–be it illegal immigrants, alternative newsweekly journalists, etc.–are deviants and rapists will be deleted, because that’s prejudiced and stupid. Thanks!
Should I jump into this one. (Pause, wait, think, ah why not).
Here’s what I propose:
For an egalitarian application of the law, EVERYONE has to be checked by police for citizenship and EVERYONE has to have papers when stopped by police. The police, in turn, will be required to check EVERYONE for their citizenship. i.e. “License, registration and citizenship papers, sir.”
It will be the rule, not the exception.
The police, in turn, cannot stop someone unless an infraction or violation was observed. This takes away unfair targeting for “driving while (assumed illegal).” It also means no talking your way out of a ticket – you’ll be ticketed regardless and will have to fight it in the courts.
If you didn’t bring your
A) Birth certificate
B) Green card/immigration papers
C) Passport
or
D) Government-issued Homeland Security-linked enhanced Driver’s License (ala the Enhanced ID used in Washington state: http://www.dol.wa.gov/about/news/prioritie… ),
well then you are in trouble and you’ll have to show other proof of citizenship. Or go to jail. No ifs ands or buts, Arizona.
Think about it – any police interaction would require a citizenship check. Enhanced driver’s licenses and enhanced ID cards would be the solution. Welcome to a police state. If you don’t have one, you would be —-ed.
Do I like or support this idea I’m proposing? Not at all. I’m against national ID cards and similar identification measures.
Am I presenting it as a way to equally apply S.B. 1070 ? Yes.
Is S.B. 1070 currently full of loopholes to create abuses? Absolutely. Are they fair? No – the intent (fighting illegal immigration) is right, but the application (not asking everyone) is wrong.
Is this proposal mired with problems? Yes – both financially to the state, financially to drivers (you will need a new ID), to the courts and it added a new layer of Big Brotherism.
And will Hispanics and Latinos be unfairly targeted unless EVERYONE is targeted under the SAME rules? You betcha. *wink*
… I can see Alaska from my house!
Your thoughts?
Here ya go, IPH:
“Will a driver’s license suffice as proof of citizenship in Arizona? Maybe, but only if you’re from Arizona”
at:
http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/wi…
Of course, what lies in the background and unexplored by most media is that SB 1070 boils down to a right wing fundraiser. It’s the birther movement writ large, insane and illegal.
But under my scenario, a driver’s license is not enough.
License, registration and citizenship papers, please.
S.B. 1070 is a right wing fundraiser? I had not heard that one in so little words before. Do tell.
@wizardbard; sorry dude! The “right wing fundraiser” comment is sending me packing. I LIKE debates, but I’m WAY past the age where name-calling is reasonable.
I actually am NOT a bigot, racist, kkk-recruiter or whatever other pejorative the anti-S.B. 1070’s are using as a soundbyte NOW. Since I know that (A) I am NOT any of these things and, (B) I support S.B. 1070 simply because I feel this country is being STRANGLED by the flood of illegals crossing the border, I am NOT particularly offended by this name-calling. It is, however, NOT the reason I come to this–or any OTHER–forum.
I see a “debate” as an intelligent discussion of opinions/ideas. I do NOT see that here!
Adios!
This is a very censored comment page I see. Views or news Tucson Weekly? Apperently views…….
“This is a very censored comment page I see. Views or news Tucson Weekly? Apperently (sic) views…….” (Posted by campeón on June 9, 2010 at 1:44 PM)
yep, yep, yep…
Hospitals, Nurses, Doctors should not have to take of Illegals who are in the ICU in our hospitals. Nobody gets paid, the illegals stay in the most expensive unit, the ICU, and then they are let go…and nobody gets paid for the services they provide. No wonder Arizona hospitals go bancrupt, doctors don’t want to work here, nurses and EMTs are fed up. We, the taxpayers, are paying for illegals who come into our country, illegally which is criminal and bancrupting our country. People, hospitals and agencies should be able to refuse service without pay. Close the borders and let Mexico work out their own problems. Throwing stones at Border Agents from the Mexican border? What is wrong? The US is the only Western, industrialized country that has a border with a third world country and the problems are rising with the problems this entails.
First of all, the chances of a person coming into this country LEGALLY are nearly IMPOSSIBLE. To get in you have to get a Visa and to get one you must be rich because otherwise you won’t be given one. Trust me if there was a “legal” way of getting into the country we wouldn’t be talking about illegal immigration in the first place! Also, IPH says:
“But under my scenario, a driver’s license is not enough.
License, registration and citizenship papers, please.” so what I got from his statement was that he wants EVERY SINGLE “brown” person to carry their citizen papers because the police will ask for them. In what world to we live in if a non-white person has to carry around citizen papers just because of the color of their skin, which happens to be reasonable suspicion? Immigration needs to be fixed by allowing for reform that only allows those individuals who have a clean criminal and financial background to become legal residents of the United States of America which is a immigrant country. EVERYONE’s ancestors one day immigrated to this country and no one told them anything! So what gives us the right to judge them for trying to become part of the oh-so-famous “American Dream” which has been crushed because there is no fair way of coming into this country legally. Kicking people out without giving them the opportunity to become a legal resident of the U.S. is all that SB1070 will do. And obviously that like in every population there are criminals that ruin it all for the hard working people that came into this country only looking for a better home. so please don’t judge a book by its cover when you say that 30% of inmates are illegal because the other 70% of inmates are American and no one is calling Americans criminals. Overpopulation is not happening by illegals it is happening by Americans like Octomom, John & Kate Plus 8 and others who decide to have so many children without discussing if they can indeed afford them or not. So before judging other people look at your self in the mirror because chances are that you share the same qualities that you judge in illegals, and the only difference is that you are an American citizen and they are not!!!
Why is it discriminating when AZ creates this law… when it is almost WORD FOR WORD of the same Federal law (which doesn’t get enforced) that’s already in place and no one cries about that? Are you kidding me? This isn’t only about Mexican illegals! How about the terrorists who can sneak over the border WITHOUT passports and live (and plan) among us, where & when their next mass killing will be?! Does anyone ever think of that? This border needs to be sealed IMMEDIATELY. Man, I’m so sick of all of this. And about the speech this morning… intelligent people, like myself, were able to see right through this man- the President’s only worry is getting those Latino votes when election time comes around again… this country is in SAD shape. Research the polls on how many Americans are ACTUALLY in favor of this law – it’s more than 70% (of those who are brave enough to admit it) compared to what the opposers are saying. Go ahead and boycott… we don’t care! READ THE LAW. You can find it here: http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bill…
@FedupinMesa: I honestly didn’t think there could be a comment MADE on this forum which could glean another input from me. I stand corrected!
You are RIGHT, of course. Our borders (South AND North) need to be sealed immediately! It is a necessity for the safety of our country’s and our way of life. The very way of life that people are clamoring (and WADING!) to enter this country for!
The current administration whores itself out to the liberals. Whether or not the Latinos are part of this group, I will leave up to those more politically schooled than myself.
I actually voted for that fool (and I do NOT use that word lightly!) and feel mea culpa for some of these problems. To allow a group of people–be it terrorists or illegal aliens “seeking work”–to erode or destroy our way of life FOR YOU OWN PERSONAL POLITICAL GAIN is insidiously evil!
PLEASE–EVERYBODY–get off your asses this November and CLEAN HOUSE! And senate! We have at our disposal the FINEST “term limitations” known to man! USE ‘EM! Get the bastards out of office!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
It seems politicians have duped Arizonans once again with SB1070. Everyone is in an uproar over immigration, and they’re not paying attention to fact that these same politicians put Arizona’s budget in the tank, raised our taxes, and none of them have a plan for bringing decent paying jobs to AZ.
I’m sick of people cited these false claims of the negative economic impact of illegals that make up less than 10% of Arizona’s population. Don’t believe me? Do the math. Of the 6.5 million people in AZ, only 460,000 are believed to be “illegal”. Furthermore, AZ passed legislation years ago that prevent undocumented people from getting social services. I know because I voted for it. White people are getting most of the welfare in this country! Check with the Census Bureau.
As far as illegals taking all our jobs, I live in rural Arizona, and I’ve yet to see one white person working the farm fields, even in this recession. I’m not Hispanic and I’m college educated, and I’ll be the first to admit that I have no interest in working in the hot desert sun for less than minimum wage. The agricultural industry has relied heavily on immigrant labor for generations, which is why you’re not paying even more for groceries.
Everyone wants to slam the current administration for “not doing its job”, but there are several politicians on both sides that have done nothing long before Obama was in office. Illegal immigration was at its height in 2004. What did Bush do? Nothing. The border has been open for centuries.
People don’t understand how economically impossible sealing the border truly is. Finding and deporting all illegals would cost more than the two wars we’re involved in. And despite what politicians and commentators tell you, “illegal” immigration does contribute to our economy in a positive ways. Cheap labor keeps costs down, and undocumented workers pay into programs they’ll never get to use. Ask most economists on the “left” or “right” and they’ll agree.
If you want to cut off drug trade, stop buying drugs. If you want to curb illegal labor, stop hiring undocumented workers. Both of these are achievable without SB1070. Playing catch and release doesn’t change anything. SB 1070 is nothing more than a political stunt, and does more to infringe on our American rights than address illegal immigration. Wake up Arizona!
All i can say is I’m pro law enforcement on any level. If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear. I am a Native Californian and we would like to see the same enforcement as AZ. This has gone to far. LAW IS LAW legal is legal immigrate LEGALLY and you won’t encounter the problems. I’m sick of people saying that Americans who want the law followed are prejudice. I have many Hispanic American friends who feel the same way as me as they are AMERICANS doesn’t matter black, white, brown, green, blue whatever. We can’t afford to keep paying for the welfare of illegals in this country. 37 million alone on just food stamps and housing in LA County alone.. do the math. I work full time and have no health insurance and i pay 75.00 for every visit to doctor. This has got to stop. We need to stop the benefits from attracting illegal immigration. GOD BLESS AMERICA and AZ keep a stiff upper lip and things will work out.
AMEN! RICCI: I am also college-educated and “a white person” (as the posting above yours of JohnAZ references) and I ASSURE YOU that I WOULD work “….the farm field” were that necessary for me to avoid being on welfare or medicaid! Perhaps JohnAZ IS correct that I “….don’t understand how economically impossible sealing the border truly is.” but I most certainly AM aware that this current revolving door/OPEN door policy cannot continue!!!!
I ALSO have “hispanic friends” (although, until these forums, I never really thought much about ANY of my friends ethic orgins) and–interestingly–THEY are more upset by the illegals (even way up here in Idaho!) than I am.
You are right, RICCI: LAW IS LAW. Since we cannot STOP people from outside this country from ENTERING this country in a direct flaunting of the laws’ inadequacies, we MUST seal the borders! As these people do not seem civilized enough to VOLUNTARILY follow the rule of law, the rule of law MUST be strengthened.
I am reasonably sure that the same “cheap labor keeps costs down” mantra was, in SOME form, used for people arguing against the emancipationists, too, and it would seem that THAT law turned out fairly well.
Talk about ignorant spin. Of course more Hispanics will be questioned, Duhhhh. The illegals are predominantly Hispanic. We don’t have a problem with millions of white, blonde, Swedes crossing the border and shooting up Mexican towns and American farmers. What a real dis-service this poll is. There is obviously a bias of the creator of this report and it’s not the truth as it needs to be
Point well taken, Angry Californian! One would assume you are NOT in favor of any sort of Arizona “boycott”. I, too, wonder constantly why people would be so astounded and morally outraged that hispanics, who probably constitute–what?–75% of the illegal aliens in this country would be “questioned” regarding their resident status. Unless I am sadly mistaken, Arizona (along with YOUR state) share a BORDER with Mexico.
Even so, A.C., Arizona’s SB 1070 specifically prohibits (A) questioning ANYONE’S legal residency unless coincidental to ANOTHER separate investigation by law enforcement and (B) using a person’s race, skin color, etc. as sole justification for the residency question.
My own opinion of hispanic people has declined since I entered into these SB 1070 opinion sites. I dislike–not any race, religion, skin color, etc.–but people who declare themselves to be “victims” of whatever the cause de jour is!!! To me, THAT declaration is WORSE than the one which says people should be allowed to break “certain” laws because of THEIR circumstances. If you live in a society, and expect to partake of the fruits of that society, you must, in turn, respect the LAWS of that society. Que’?
@Angry Californian: A “reasonable” analogy;
This week, about 125 miles from my home (and just outside the park boundries of Yellowstone National Park), three campers were mauled (one fatally). Park rangers suspected the perpetrators were “….either grizzly or “brown” bears.” and took three bears found in the vicinity “into custody”.
My questions are these: (1) Does not publicly announcing that BEARS–especially “brown” bears– were culpable (as opposed to coyotes, wolves, or mountain lions) constitute “profiling” on the part of the Park Rangers? (2) As the Rangers admitted publicly–very early on in their investigation–that they believed “….either grizzly or BROWN bears….” were guilty of this carnage, aren’t they in effect ADMITTING blatant discrimination on the part of law enforcement? (3) Can we expect the ACLU and/or various ethnic organizations to demonstrate against the arrest of BROWN bears? And (4) Will the United States Attorney General pursue legal action against the Park Rangers in order to correct this OBVIOUS abuse of authority?!!!
One more question, A.C.: Could you see any LESS rationality, were these actions to actually occur, than what is happening to SB 1070 in ARIZONA??????????????
Are you worried about illegal people? What are American soldiers doing in Iraq, Afghanistan or other countries??? Are not they illegals?? Half of US territory was property of Mexico, and americans hate mexican people??.. I can not believe that.. Ignorant people. Foreign people are more educated than you, Can you speak spanish like me?? another language?? Do you have a bachelor, master o Phd as me?, I am a Mexican citizen and you, American people know that you are not welcome in most countries around the world.. go ahead..
@happyforeign; your point is quasiwell-made. I assure you, sir, that I do NOT have a “master o Phd” [sic], as I am not even aware of precisely what that particular educational degree IS.
If you believe that either myself or the VAST majority of persons supporting 1070 “….hate mexican people??” you, sir, despite your ambiguous degree, are a damned fool. I have several friends who are of hispanic descent. Whether they are “Mexican”, “Latino”, “Hispanic”, or Eskimo WITH A “STRANGE” ACCENT has never come up. For the very simple and logical reason that neither myself nor any of my “racist” WHITE friends, give a tinker’s DAMN where you or your family CAME from, as long as you’re here and here legally! All of my “Hispanic” friends are successful business people, mostly with more money than myself, and very vocally DESPISE “the wets” (THEIR words, not mine!). They do realistic background checks prior to hiring ANY employees, require that their employees ALL be at least at “conversational” level in their English, and–since they DO wish to retain their “culture”–frequently RETURN to Mexico. I know this because they always return with tales of lawlessness, corruption of police, etc., etc.,etc.!
“Can (I) speak ‘spanish’ [sic] like (you)?” No, I can’t. Were I planning to “move” my family into Mexico to take advantage of all YOUR society offers, via LEGAL or “other” means, I WOULD DAMNED SURE LEARN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
To be clear, sir; I am NOT trying to enter into some sort of “debate” with you. I personally find racism to be offensive, be it “….americans (hating) mexican people??” OR the blanket condemnation of Americans that YOU use. Racism usually denotes a very low level of intellect in the people espousing that particular trait. Even ones with a “master o Phd” [sic] such as yourself. You also do not HAVE to be white (OR American!) to BE a racist. Since cynicism doesn’t come across clearly in written form, please be aware that–from your posting–I consider YOU to be a racist.
Oh, one final thing: In English, the word “was” (as in “Half of US territory was property of Mexico….” [sic]) is a the PAST tense of the verb “be”. i.e., it NO LONGER IS! Best brush up on your English a bit, sir. Otherwise, even WITH your master o Phd, you might end up sounding like one of us “Ignorant people.”
Okay! All ANTI-1070’s: Pop quiz. Multiple choice.
The quote IS: “Every immigrant who comes here should be required within five years to learn English or
leave the country.”
ANSWERS:
(A) William J. Simmons (reputed founder of the “new” Ku Klux Klan)
(B) The former Governor of Alabama, George Wallace
(C) Adolf Hitler (deceased Fuhrer und Reichskanzler of Germany)
(D) Theodore Roosevelt (26th President of the United States)
By the way; the quote addressed is NOT about discrimination, it’s about ASSIMILATION. If all you “immigrants” OR “illegals” feel that this little MODICUM of effort isn’t WORTH IT, then why don’t you drag your sorry little asses BACK to the “culture” of the country you ABANDONED. To listen to YOU, it is soooo G*******d BEAUTIFUL, anyway!
PS; The “racist bastard” responsible for the quote was (D), and HE wasn’t talking about Mexicans, Latinos, Hispanics, or whatever the hell it is you want to be called TODAY! HE was talking about IMMIGRANTS from all over the world. THEY did, too, exert that little bit of effort in order to conform!!!!
polls are propaganda:
they are designed to shape public opinion,
not reflect it.
The people who want to want to shape public opinion know
the first rule of lying:
lie big, 180 degrees from the truth.
Then, people won’t think you are lying because the average person thinks people lie small.
think for yourself please
modicum of effort? ThomasSno, I’d like to give you a proficiency test in a foreign language. Let’s see how well you do. Even if you move to another country and are surrounded by that language all the time. Show us how easy it is, Big Boy.
@Enquirer; Less effort than would be required to have a Spanish-speaking translator made available at tax-payers’ expense to teach the anchor-babies in their “home” tongue in every public elementary school. I’m SURE that answer won’t suffice, Enquirer, but that is MY definition of a “modicum of effort”.
Oddly, I no longer have a desire even to VISIT another country, let alone LIVE there, so I really don’t NEED to learn another language, do I? WERE that knowledge needed to live in another country I’m sure I WOULD be willing to learn their language, rather than simply expect/demand the citizens of that country accomodate ME in MY language.
However, I will freely admit that these 1070 “Forums” have caused me to question my understanding of semantics, as they relate to English. Until “debating” with people who feel their “needs”–either real OR imagined–should be seen by others as a rationalization for them violating whatever law they feel NEEDS violating (to attain THEIR ends), I had always thought of myself as something of a radical. However, could a radical that believes in the rule of law and the necessity of that law to form and uphold a civilization actually BE a radical?
Why do you come on this forum to just make stuff up, ThomasSno? Where are Spanish-speaking translators provided to “anchor-babies” in schools? First, public school students are instructed in English. Period. Students with low proficiency in English are required to take English-learning classes in addition to the standard courses of math and science. In fact, just today there were arguments in the Flores case about the fact that TUSD doesn’t do a good enough job at teaching English. So where are these tax-funded translators you are talking about?
Second, what on earth is an anchor baby? US citizens can only petition for their parents to enter the county once they turn 21. And then, the parents have to have made a legal entry. This idea you apparently have that as soon as children are born here that entire families can get legal status? As fictional as unicorns.
What you’re really afraid of is that people who aren’t like you are moving here, living here, and treating this place as their home. Suck it up. The new America is filled with brown people. And no matter how many hate-filled lies you fill this forum with, you can’t change that. And random capitalization won’t secure the border.
Gonna try this one last time. “Anchor baby” is a colloquialism that Americans–be they native-born OR naturalized–use to describe children born within the borders of the United States, to a parent or parents who have entered this country illegally. Such birth provides the child with American citizenship under the citizenship rule of jus soli, which is Latin for “right of the soil”. This is the opposite of jus sanguinis (“right of the blood”) and is frequently used as a “key” to various social programs for use by the entire family. This subterfuge is used by illegal aliens OTHER than Latinos, of course, but–as with the 1070 instance–would apply mostly to peoples entering across the Arizona border. As such actions are generally part of a larger byzantine process, what I and most adults KNOW cannot be “proven”, at least to your satisfaction. As such, if you wish to label these actions as more of my “hate-filled lies”; bon appetit. I never met to infer that illegal aliens were somehow automatically handed citizenship rights because of the birthright status of their anchor babies, merely that it made it easier for the entire family to disengenuously take advantage of a lot of taxpayer-funded social programs.
In my state, translators–in Spanish only–are provided to translate class instructions to elementary school students who are so inept at the mother language of English that they can’t comprehend simple instructions in English. I personally believe this is because their “parent(s)” will not use English in their homes, preferring the “culture” of the language of a country they abandoned. While my state–as well as MANY others–have had a REDUCTION in its teachers’ salaries, the Federally-mandated non-English proficiency program is a virtual third-rail. No cuts/reductions EVER.
Frankly, Enquirer, I don’t give a tinker’s damn about what color peoples’ skin is, their country of origin, OR their damned mother tongue! I don’t care if your mother was Waswahili and your father was an Eskimo. What I DO care about is people OF ANY COLOR OR BACKGROUND coming to this country in violation of the law and then expecting American citizens to believe that these peoples “needs” should allow them to be able to break whatever laws they choose in order to “better” themselves.
Then again; I’m sure you’ve already labeled me a racist, so no logic is welcomed on this subject. Perhaps this is why nothing is ever accomplished in this country anymore. Everybody’s scared to death of being labeled a bigot.
Postscript; sentence in above post should read “I never MEANT to infer that illegal aliens….” Guess that’s just part of being a redneck, huh? Sometimes forget to properly proofread!
This law is beyond stupid! Calling us illegal Aliens ? what the hell is wrong with you people….. last time i checked we are all humans. Its sad how you Americans think we’re taking your jobs, when you are to lazy to work. And yes i get that we can get our “green card” but that’s impossible if we don’t have job. i hope i made a point;0
This law is racist. It makes it accessible for police officers and government officials to racial profile other people based on the blanket which covers them- the republicians. i do not think this law is effective. Neither is this article. the article shows one side and does not give any cited evidence to support that side. if we want to stop illegal immigrants how bout enforce better security. help the country where the immigrants are coming from! thats an idea. why are we watching them suffer when 1. we can help them and build better allies and 2. we want to eliminate illegal immigration but we are shoving our iphone 6’s and laptops and forcing little kids in congo to risk their lives to get minerals for a phone most 13 year old kids crack on their way to the mall in their moms SUV. if i was in the position i think i would do the same thing these people are doing but mitt romney clearly isnt.