Ya ever hit the wrong button while listening to your voicemail, and accidentally delete a message?
I did that this morning. And our dufus voicemail system does not allow you to retrieve a message you’ve deleted, even if you pressed the delete key mere seconds before. It doesn’t even help to yell at it.
So … if you called me sometime within the last day or so, and I have not returned the call, holler at me again, please.
This article appears in Jul 12-18, 2007.
Maybe nobody has been calling you. Happens.
It was me! I called to say, “Snausages.”
I didn’t call, but I wanted to say I liked the article about “cool church” in this week’s edition. I criticized the Weekly last week for not being in the lead on this but I think actually informing readers what kind of trash passes for a religious sermon there is more important. Good work.
About the “Cool” Church Article: If you are going to send a reporter to this church to do a story about their reaction to their newly achieved notoriety – Please, please, at least send someone who can arrive to the church on time and actually retrieve some useful information. I was looking forward to this story, and instead of a recant of the minister’s rebuttal, and an interview with a parishioner or two, we were treated with a story that consisted mostly of the reporter’s journey to the church, what the church looked like, and what the people inside the church looked like. Thanks for nothing.
Hey, Craig — a lot of people don’t know what the church looks like, how it functions or what their sermons are like. My story provided a different perspective in that I was, for all intents and purposes, just a member of the congregation.
If you want to hear the opinions of people connected to the church, go to the Star blogs or read the original story by Stephanie Innes. You’re demanding that I do something that’s already been done before, and I’m not sure what “useful information” you think you’re going to get as a result.
I, for one, don’t need to hear the minister’s rebuttal (rebuttal to what exactly?). I thought it was a good article, which had a limited scope appropriate to the subject and for the Tucson Weekly’s audience.
I doubt anybody associated with the “Cool Church” would do well in an honest debate. I’ve been to churches where the pastor made a point of talking down about the gay lifestyle, and I left to find a church that does not cater to and endorse thinly veiled bigorty. I know a lot of Christians who feel the same way and who have left churches that displayed this type of anti-Christian message.
Would Christ accept homosexuals with a message of acceptance, or would he go out of his way to tell them how their lifestyle is wrong and sinful? I think it’s absurd and hypocritical to call out homosexuals for their lifestyle when churches never, ever broach the subject of their heterosexual congregation’s sexual practices.
There are far more important issues taking place in society than who is sleeping with whom, and how. Churches that make this a focal point of their message reveal themselves to have a lousy set of priorities. I challenge anybody from the Cool Church to come on this forum and explain what it is you think you’re accomplishing by spreading a message of intolerance.
Mercy,
To give a Devil’s Advocate argument, someone from the Cool Church may well argue that they aren’t spreading intolerance, but a firm belief of theirs in the spirit of a forked idea within Christianity. In other words, a defense position of “wait, why are you spreading the promotion of an immoral/unacceptable lifestyle?”
Just saying, not advocating.
after looking at the website and reading some of your paper your not listening to anyone but you, but I had to standup!
–July12-18
Re: The Bigotry Parade, Jimmy Boegle-editor*********re: into the lion’s den, Saxon Burns********** Hello, this is a large comment on your two articles written and published in the “Tucson weekly” I don’t normally read this entertainment news so I read some of the articles to be fair and find out what your magazine-newspaper is about I go to “ the cool church” actually TCC for a year now and happen to be at church the same time you were at the eastside l Talk about seeing and hearing something TOTALLY DIFFERENT! Reading the article about “lion’s den” reminded me of my mouthy 14 year old who knows everything…….Let me introduce myself; my name is Nancy [ God’s child] I’m a 48 year old wife of 24 years , mother of a 28 yr old in the Navy , 14 year old and a 4 year old Grandma of 2**2 and 4 yrs so I have been in the business of” parenting “ for awhile. Universal Studios……..you obviously haven’t been to the bigger churches ours isn’t state of the art but it does do its job. Glassy eyed….partridges………a touch of salvation………you’ve been watching too many movies………You speak of repentance [ what Pastor David was preaching] lets say if a 14 year old is throwing his little sister to the ground and yelling at her. The 14 year old says sorry! And walks away in a huff…..chances are he’s not sorry and letting it go is not an option because as any good parent knows the behavior keeps on or gets worse. How about a spouse who beats up his or her significant other…….how many times do you take it if they are sorry and continue the behavior? You are so ridiculous to think the church or Pastor David has set the rules for God ……….there are no embellishments by the church or Pastors. I’m so glad to see you didn’t take a sentence out of the bible to quote your side, but you take out bits and pieces of church to scorn and mock …it’s too bad you didn’t go in with an open mind. You want to change the rules? Talk to God or better yet read the Bible……If you can’t hear God maybe the Pastor can explain it to you. we follow with love respect and obedience to Jesus and God. First! and pretty much love and respect our Pastors for imparting such important messages that make it understandable and relevant to today’s living. I am all those things above but I am also a disabled woman fighting a progressive neurological disease and losing the battle, I was young and strong and able… but have been brought to my knees to many times to count. I use a wheelchair part-time but I’m struggling to stay out full time……..lucky you nothing has brought you to your knees….yet….. TCC preaches from the bible like many churches in Tucson do and lets face it homosexuality is nothing new ,its only been written about [bible] what 5,000 years ago, and condemned since Adam and Eve. You would think over 5,000 years it would become acceptable………..but it hasn’t … God’s rules don’t change like mans, he is the same today and yesterday. Funny thing like a parent……..we don’t change the rules either to accommodate our kids . I’m sure you will either make fun of me or ignore me but I’m use to it, people don’t usually hear someone in a wheelchair anyways, only Jesus. Oh and Mr. Boegle unrepentant church of course not, why should we be repentant ? For preaching God`s word “ we all sin But we come to Jesus……..Jude 1-1*25 might answer your questions right next to revelations…………come to Jesus gentlemen………..come to Jesus.
Nancy: Please, show me, anywhere, ANYWHERE, where Jesus condemned homosexuality, or for that matter, anyone. Please show me. Because I know the Bible rather well, and I sure can’t find what you’re talking about. Thanks.
Seriously. As a Christian I find the use of the lords name and work to justify anyone’s homophobia truly revolting and pathetic. Shame.
Your are correct Mr. Jimmy Boegle this is plain bigotry, and while it may be Christian, it’s clearly un-American.
Hello again! it took me awhile to follow and paste this besides reading and rereading my Bible. Thanks Mr Boegle for listening, I am sure there is much much more but I have only been a follower for 2 years and a serious one for a year . I can only speak of my experiences with my disease and how my walk has been. Every believer has a different path and God breaks us if you will***molds us depending on the sins we don’t let go of. I know for me I see thru different eyes the world around me, the things I thought were no big deal or ok following God would be sin. So I have put away the things[ although I pick them up occasionally] and I put them down again sometimes 7+77 but he is always quick to forgive. However I do have to be responsible for the consequences. I am not learned in the Bible and memorizing or in formation but this link is where much of the info I got and of course my Bible http://bible.christiansunite.com/index.shtml http://thepoint.breakpoint.org/2007/03/a_biological_li.html the link was really interesting reading to************************************This epistle is addressed to all believers in the gospel. Its design appears to be to guard believers against the false teachers who had begun to creep into the Christian church, and to scatter dangerous tenets, by attempting to lower all Christianity into a merely nominal belief and outward profession of the gospel. Having thus denied the obligations of personal holiness, they taught their disciples to live in sinful courses, at the same time flattering them with the hope of eternal life. The vile character of these seducers is shown, and their sentence is denounced, and the epistle concludes with warnings, admonitions, and counsels to believers ***********Jude CH 1 -8 ***************
4: For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
5: I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.
6: And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
7: Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
8: Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities ****************************************************************** The Corinthians are warned against many great evils, of which they had formerly been guilty. There is much force in these inquiries, when we consider that they were addressed to a people puffed up with a fancy of their being above others in wisdom and knowledge. All unrighteousness is sin; all reigning sin, nay, every actual sin, committed with design, and not repented of, shuts out of the kingdom of heaven. Be not deceived. Men are very much inclined to flatter themselves that they may live in sin, yet die in Christ, and go to heaven. But we cannot hope to sow to the flesh, and reap everlasting life. They are reminded what a change the gospel and grace of God had made in them. The blood of Christ, and the washing of regeneration, can take away all guilt. Our justification is owing to the suffering and merit of Christ; our sanctification to the working of the Holy Spirit; but both go together. All who are made righteous in the sight of God, are made holy by the grace of God **** 1 Corinthians Chapter 6 9-11****
9: Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10: Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortionist, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11: And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God***************************************-*******************
Verses 18-25 The apostle begins to show that all mankind need the salvation of the gospel, because none could obtain the favour of God, or escape his wrath by their own works. For no man can plead that he has fulfilled all his obligations to God and to his neighbour; nor can any truly say that he has fully acted up to the light afforded him. The sinfulness of man is described as ungodliness against the laws of the first table, and unrighteousness against those of the second. The cause of that sinfulness is holding the truth in unrighteousness. All, more or less, do what they know to be wrong, and omit what they know to be right, so that the plea of ignorance cannot be allowed from any. Our Creator’s invisible power and Godhead are so clearly shown in the works he has made, that even idolaters and wicked Gentiles are left without excuse. They foolishly followed idolatry; and rational creatures changed the worship of the glorious Creator, for that of brutes, reptiles, and senseless images. They wandered from God, till all traces of true religion must have been lost, had not the revelation of the gospel prevented it. For whatever may be pretended, as to the sufficiency of man’s reason to discover Divine truth and moral obligation, or to govern the practice aright, facts cannot be denied. And these plainly show that men have dishonoured God by the most absurd idolatries and superstitions; and have degraded themselves by the vilest affections and most abominable deeds.
Verses 26-32: In the horrid depravity of the heathen, the truth of our Lord’s words was shown: “Light was come into the world, but men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil; for he that doeth evil hateth the light.” The truth was not to their taste. And we all know how soon a man will contrive, against the strongest evidence, to reason himself out of the belief of what he dislikes. But a man cannot be brought to greater slavery than to be given up to his own lusts. As the Gentiles did not like to keep God in their knowledge, they committed crimes wholly against reason and their own welfare. The nature of man, whether pagan or Christian, is still the same; and the charges of the apostle apply more or less to the state and character of men at all times, till they are brought to full submission to the faith of Christ, and renewed by Divine power. There never yet was a man, who had not reason to lament his strong corruptions, and his secret dislike to the will of God. Therefore this chapter is a call to self-examination, the end of which should be, a deep conviction of sin, and of the necessity of deliverance from a state of condemnation
18: For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19: Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20: For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22: Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23: And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts,and creeping things.
24: Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26: For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28: And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29: Being filled with all unrighteousness,fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy,murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30: Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters,inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31: Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
********************************************************************Verses 10-27: These verses repeat what had been said before, but it was needful there should be line upon line. What praises we owe to God that he has taught the evil of sin, and the sure way of deliverance from it! May we have grace to adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things; may we have no fellowship with unfruitful works of darkness, but reprove them. *************Leviticus CH 20 -13**********
13: If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
the destruction of Sodom, and the deliverance of Lot. (1-29) The sin and disgrace of Lot. (30-38)
Verses 1-29: Lot was good, but there was not one more of the same character in the city. All the people of Sodom were very wicked and vile. Care was therefore taken for saving Lot and his family. Lot lingered; he trifled. Thus many who are under convictions about their spiritual state, and the necessity of a change, defer that needful work. The salvation of the most righteous men is of God’s mercy, not by their own merit. We are saved by grace. God’s power also must be acknowledged in bringing souls out of a sinful state If God had not been merciful to us, our lingering had been our ruin. Lot must flee for his life. He must not hanker after Sodom. Such commands as these are given to those who, through grace, are delivered out of a sinful state and condition. Return not to sin and Satan. Rest not in self and the world. Reach toward Christ and heaven, for that is escaping to the mountain, short of which we must not stop. Concerning this destruction, observe that it is a revelation of the wrath of God against sin and sinners of all ages. Let us learn from hence the evil of sin, and its hurtful nature; it leads to ruin. **********Genesis 19 5-28******************5: And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.
6: And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him,
7: And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly.
8: Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.
9: And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door.
10: But the men put forth their hand, and pulled Lot into the house to them, and shut to the door.
11: And they smote the men that were at the door of the house with blindness, both small and great: so that they wearied themselves to find the door.
12: And the men said unto Lot, Hast thou here any besides? son in law, and thy sons, and thy daughters, and whatsoever thou hast in the city, bring them out of this place:
13: For we will destroy this place, because the cry of them is waxen great before the face of the LORD; and the LORD hath sent us to destroy it.
14: And Lot went out, and spake unto his sons in law, which married his daughters, and said, Up, get you out of this place; for the LORD will destroy this city. But he seemed as one that mocked unto his sons in law.
15: And when the morning arose, then the angels hastened Lot, saying, Arise, take thy wife, and thy two daughters, which are here; lest thou be consumed in the iniquity of the city.
16: And while he lingered, the men laid hold upon his hand, and upon the hand of his wife, and upon the hand of his two daughters; the LORD being merciful unto him: and they brought him forth, and set him without the city.
17: And it came to pass, when they had brought them forth abroad, that he said, Escape for thy life; look not behind thee, neither stay thou in all the plain; escape to the mountain, lest thou be consumed.
18: And Lot said unto them, Oh, not so, my Lord:
19: Behold now, thy servant hath found grace in thy sight, and thou hast magnified thy mercy, which thou hast shewed unto me in saving my life; and I cannot escape to the mountain, lest some evil take me, and I die:
20: Behold now, this city is near to flee unto, and it is a little one: Oh, let me escape thither, (is it not a little one?) and my soul shall live.
21: And he said unto him, See, I have accepted thee concerning this thing also, that I will not overthrow this city, for the which thou hast spoken.
22: Haste thee, escape thither; for I cannot do any thing till thou be come thither. Therefore the name of the city was called Zoar.
23: The sun was risen upon the earth when Lot entered into Zoar.
24: Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;
25: And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground.
26: But his wife looked back from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt.
27: And Abraham gat up early in the morning to the place where he stood before the LORD:
28: And he looked toward Sodom and Gomorrah, and toward all the land of the plain, and beheld, and, lo, the smoke of the country went up as the smoke of a furnace.
Nancy: Nothing in here you cite was said by Christ. Not one word of it. And as for Sodom and Gomorrah, their sins went well beyond homosexuality. I promise you, Nancy, that if you really study the New Testament, it says nothing directly about homosexuality (although some verses can be twisted a bit). Finally, the rhetoric on TCC’s Web site and in McAllister’s sermon is 180 degrees from the way Christ spoke about people. Check it out for yourself.
Hey, Nancy, you should have kept going with the Lot story. You didn’t get to the fun part, only a few more lines down from where you stopped, when Lot’s daughters take turns raping their daddy.
Yep….it’s right there in the bible. And it’s treated as if it’s normal!
The bible is such a great place to seek sexual guidance. LOT!
From the Red Star Bureau of Nonsense: There is no good reason to expect post #12 to make sense.
Post #12? What’s wrong with my post, Red Star?
Dit damn edor scribben dis: “…their sins went well beyond homosexuality” tryn trashin it back Nancy and on like it dat but only falling to the trap.
Whatevs.
Hello again Mr Jimmy Boegle you will see near the bottom it says to love one another and hateth his brother….there is what everybody quotes from the bible…..but…..say my child chose a gay life [he lives it, he doesn`t live it] I don`t pound him with the bible, beat him , lock him up, ignore him, he`s my kid I love him as a mother and want to protect him. My Job as his mother is to help him first find Jesus and pray and be there for him in the end he chooses Jesus or his way..God does that so much better and much patience waiting till the end to be accepeted……..your right about Job`s daughter but people were the closest to God back then and if you remember in Genesis the sons of God[angels] loved some of the daughters of man and had giants[goliath,samson] may have been produced by angel-man they were said to have been very tall. Also Abraham and Lot lived a 1000 years. Man back then were [body] perfect and did not have health problems. Did it occur to you Sam that Adam and Eve had Cain and Able who were there wives??? there sisters……anyways Lots daughters were punished [ the human race was much purer and so free of defects that we have today]for disobeying God and one child was the father of the moabites who may have[ strove with] persecuted the jewish people, I am not certain so I would have to look it up.Mr Jimmy Boegle this is bout your question “Jesus never said anything about homosexuality and remember that word was not used then so it was described… Jesus was total obedience to God his Father so he followed his Father to the letter of the law…..satan, total disobedience…….
1st John, Chapter 2 verses 3 – 11
3: And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4: He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5: But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6: He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
7: Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.
8: Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.[Jesus]
9: He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.
10: He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.[when he is in sin]
11: But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes [glossing or making them invalid sins] [what the passage means in todays terms] What knowledge of Christ can that be, which sees not that he is most worthy of our entire obedience? And a disobedient life shows there is neither religion nor honesty in the professor. The love of God is perfected in him that keeps his commandments. God’s grace in him attains its true mark, and produces its sovereign effect as far as may be in this world, and this is man’s regeneration; though never absolutely perfect here. Yet this observing Christ’s commands, has holiness and excellency which, if universal, would make the earth resemble heaven itself. The command to love one another had been in force from the beginning of the world; but it might be called a new command as given to Christians. It was new in them, as their situation was new in respect of its motives, rules, and obligations. And those who walk in hatred and enmity to believers, remain in a dark state. Christian love teaches us to value our brother’s soul, and to dread every thing hurtful to his purity and peace. Where spiritual darkness dwells, in mind, the judgment, and the conscience will be darkened, and will mistake the way to heavenly life. These things demand serious self-examination; and earnest prayer, that God would show us what we are, and whither we are going.
Hey Saxon,
I apologize for being harsh – It’s just that I was hoping for a story where you stood up in that church and made a scene and challenged those who think it’s okay to use their religion as a vehicle for hatred. Now THAT would be a different angle! Unrealistic and futile, I suppose, especially considering the apparent lack of intellect residing at this so-called “church”.
Promise you will keep an eye on these wackos?
Thanks,
Craig