Most Tucson Weekly readers know that there is a dispute over
property between the Rialto Theatre Foundation, a not-for-profit
organization for which I work, and the Downtown Tucson Development
Corporation (DTDC), which owns the Rialto building (but not the
theater).
The property in question—two small storefront bays on both
sides of the Rialto’s entrance and an outbuilding along Broadway
Boulevard that is used as a green room and the theater’s
office—totals approximately 4,000 square feet.
The DTDC owns the spaces. So why should the theater (owned by the
city of Tucson) get to lay claim to it? Let me try to explain.
I became involved with the foundation in the summer of 2004, just
before the city completed the purchase of the theater. The idea was
that an improved Rialto Theatre would serve as an economic engine with
vast spillover benefits for other downtown businesses, and offer
visible evidence of progress on downtown revitalization. The theater
would harness the power of live music as the proverbial rising tide
that lifts all boats.
When we took possession of the Rialto, it was in pretty rough shape.
It had a host of problems, and it was incumbent on us to cobble
together donations, loans and about $350,000 in Rio Nuevo matching
funds to get the theater reopened in improved form. By April 2005, we
achieved that.
Since then, we’ve steadily and incrementally continued to improve
the place, mostly using operating income. In the summer of 2006, Rio
Nuevo provided funding for the theater to be air-conditioned. We
installed a new, first-rate PA system last summer. We improved the
building at 211-215 E. Broadway Blvd. (the “green room”) by adding
HVAC, creating an office and making the green room more habitable for
the world-class artists we host. All of these efforts and expenditures
accrue to the public’s asset—the theater itself—and not to
anyone’s private interest.
It’s safe to say that the quantity and quality of acts that perform
at the Rialto have increased dramatically since 2004, which is
something I personally take great pride in, since programming is my
responsibility. However, this dispute has become a serious hindrance,
and could be fatal if the DTDC evicts us from the spaces they own.
We have epitomized the “do more with less” chestnut at every step,
and we’ve brought the theater to a significantly higher level,
evidenced by the fact that the Rialto is no. 42 on Pollstar’s recently
released Worldwide Top 100 Club Venues list (and keep in mind that
Tucson is considered a tertiary market). We have accomplished this
standing with the bare minimum of what is needed for a quality venue of
the Rialto’s class.
The city of Tucson was—and is still—willing to make a
deal with the DTDC to acquire the spaces in question. The DTDC is now
unwilling to negotiate, despite the fact that we were nearly in
agreement with the proposed terms of their now-ditched development
deal. For some mystifying reason, the council’s eminently reasonable
request for another three weeks to work out some final kinks caused the
DTDC to walk away.
The reality is this: Our need for these spaces is not a posture. The
spaces are essential if we’re to continue our mission to bring Tucson
the best live music possible. Furthermore, if we’re to have any hope of
improving the patron experience at the Rialto (imagine better
bathrooms, or a place to sit down and have a beer, or a patio!), we
need a small amount of contiguous space into which we can expand.
We want to take the Rialto from good to great. The city wants to
fairly compensate the DTDC for these spaces. The DTDC will benefit in
direct proportion to our success in making the Rialto better. But it
would seem they instead want to capitalize on our success more
directly, going so far as to persistently insist upon a joint venture
that would give them a revenue stream from the theater’s
concessions.
Being a part of downtown’s revitalization requires a commitment to
more than blatant self-interest. DTDC needs to walk the talk and
demonstrate that they truly value the Rialto Theatre by selling the
small amount of space that they themselves understand that we need.
From me to the DTDC: Do the right thing, and let’s get on with
making downtown better.
Curtis McCrary is the general manager/talent buyer at the Rialto
Theatre. He is also a longtime Weekly contributor.
This article appears in Jul 16-22, 2009.
Both sides want property that doesn’t belong to them. The Rialto Theatre Foundation wants the green room and the storage space. Stiteler and Martin want the theatre. That is the reason for the stand-off. However, only one side has been dealing in good faith and that is the Rialto Theatre Foundation.
The city needs to evaluate this situation based on results, but I’m not confident they’re able to do that. The Pollstar ranking is impressive but I’m not sure that the mayor and council understand what that means. The fact they contracted with a Washington DC company to produce a 15 minute film about Tucson when a more than qualified Tucson company such as Film Creations wasn’t even contacted to bid. The fact they paid $850,000 for it is jaw-dropping.
It’s obvious to anyone who has been paying attention that Stiteler and Martin haven’t been dealing in good faith. In fact, they’ve been so heavy handed that there are people talking about organizing a sit-in and boycotting Jano’s because the only proposal the two developers have brought to the table is a new restaurant that includes an easement to the Rialto Theatre which is not their property.
Let the mayor and council know that, while both sides want property that doesn’t belong to them, only one is currently producing results – the Rialto Theatre Foundation.
The Rialto Theatre is a crucial community resource. If the city council has to use eminent domain to purchase the neighboring properties at fair market value, as it looks like they are going to have to, that would be completely justified.
The needs of a few scummy real-estate speculators to make a ton of money are greatly outweighed by our community’s need for a top-quality music venue like the Rialto.
Renters are notorious for “taking more than they are given” – especially when those renters are “government entitite.s” – and then calling it improvements.
Just cause a roach moves in and sets up a nice pad; dont mean its the roaches house. Pay up or get out.
Hey, GuiseppeKnows, so you think it’s okay for Stiteler and Martin to steal from the Rialto?
Relocate there is the big empty El Con Mall or the Home Furnishing Mall near the Tucson Mall.
It seems DTDC can do without the revenue from the Rialto Foundation. Good luck DTDC in finding a renter.
The simple truth, no matter what improvements you have made to the space—it is not yours
As an entertainer that has performed at the Rialto theatre, used the green room, and viewed numerous other artists over the past 4 years, I can attest firsthand to the increadible improvements that have been made to the venue and to the recieving/green room.
The sound, lighting, interior, exterior, and facilities have been upgraded, and if any Tucson concertgoers have noticed, along with these improvements the level of entertainment on the bill has improved in conjunction.
The Rialto is the perfect venue for a town like Tucson, as well as giving Tucsonans the opportunity to see their favorite artists in a more intimate environment.
I wonder if Stiteler and Martin have ever experienced a concert at the Rialto, or spoken with any of the artists or concertgoers that have performed and/or enjoyed the Rialto’s facilities?
Johnny Contreras – Mariachi Luz de Luna/Calexico, Mariachi Aztlan de Pueblo High School
The Rialto Theatre is a success story I want to see continue. The Rialto can only help to revitalize our downtown, a promise the city’s council should be willing to keep.
Anyone who knows anything about this knows that the Rialto Theater is a Tucson landmark and something the city can be proud of. Seems clear enough that the DTDC just wants to make it a profit center. The right thing for them to do would be to encourage and assist the current management to “keep the tide rising”, to use Mr. McCrary’s analogy. DTDC could then benefit from the rising tide through its development of the surrounding parcels. Any other result would be a blow to Tucson and its unique culture. In my view, the developer should be happy to have such a great asset in the middle of their redevelopment area. The City should see to it that the developer’s greed does not win out in this case.
I’m posting this segment from a previous post on azstarnet
There is no question that the Rialto draws several thousand people to the downtown area which in turn generates more revenue for surrounding businesses. How much revenue is hard to quantify, but thats not really the point. The problem as I see it is that the Rialto Foundation believes that this alone is enough to merit them demanding the terms of any agreement. Either they want free use of space owned by someone else, they want to determine what they think is a fair market rent ( since when did it work that way? The landlord has a right to ask WHATEVER price he or she wants) or they outright want to take the real estate they think they are entitled to. All of this is done in the name of providing the citizens of Tucson with something that THEY deem is important for the growth of downtown.
HERES THE IMPORTANT PART
According to Biggers and the Rialto website, they have been selected by Pollstar ( a concert industry trade publication) as the 42nd best club venue in the world. This is not something bestowed upon venues because they are awesome and cool and do good things. It’s determined by one thing; ticket sales. SO? Well, do the math. If the Rialto’s ticket sales are better than clubs in bigger markets, they must be doing really well, right? Right. So why does a successful theater in a tertiary market that outsells venues in cities like Portland, Seattle, Los Angeles etc. need the city to prop it up? The cost of doing business at the Rialto cant be THAT great, they don’t pay any rent on any of the spaces they use. They are required to reinvest in capital improvements, but what, prey tell, are those improvements? The fancy hvac was subsidized by the city. The snazzy new sound system is an asset, and the ( 60, 70, 80,000 dollar…. which is it, the figure changes every time) office upgrade was to someone else’s property. Of course all of this will be dismissed by someone in the Rialto camp who will say ” These are factually baseless comments” or ” this is libelous” or “crawl back under your rock”. None of them wants to address legitimate concerns that the citizens of Tucson ( the people that they are supposedly serving through their stewardship of “OUR” Rialto) raise.
Hiding under a 501 c 3 not for profit business license does not excuse you from being held accountable for mismanagement or bad business. The fundamentals of a sound business, even one that is non profit, are simple. Take in more than you spend. For a non profit, breaking even ( like in the way some black jack players will say a push is a win) is good enough. But breaking even doesn’t mean bleed taxpayers and patrons in order to give them back something ( a “great music venue”) in return. If you cant pay your rent or acquire the things necessary to carry out your mission statement, if your burdening the people whom you claim to serve, you’re not really successful than, are you?
Before you fire back with Rialto good, everyone else bad bs comments, read this article:
http://www.azbiz.com/articles/2009/07/17/news/doc4a577e4421436634823024.txt
While I don’t find it to be a very well written article, I think it provides a little context for this problem which is nothing new. It proves that Biggers and the Rialto Foundation aren’t the little guys getting sand kicked in their eyes that they want you to believe they are. Their just as shrewd, just as cut throat as the big bad developers.
No New Tale to Tell.
Rat vs. Snake.
And PS, Biggers,
I find it telling that you will lambaste people here for posting anonymously when, on the TW site, you protect the anonymity of one azghostdog, someone who you say “prefers to post anonymously”. It’s okay if its one of yours, but if anyone else does it, they are suspect. Hypocrisy. Middle name?
Taken from http://www.azbiz.com/articles/2009/07/10/n…
This isn’t the first time Rialto has been evicted from green room
By Joe Pangburn
Inside Tucson Business
Published on Friday, July 10, 2009
History is repeating itself. For the second time in less than a decade an owner of the downtown block that includes the Rialto Theatre is evicting the theater from space it is using rent-free without owning it or having a lease. But there’s a switch: the evictor seven years ago is now the evictee this time around.
On July 2, developers Don Martin and Scott Stiteler gave the theater’s foundation until Sunday (July 12) to vacate the privately owned spaces the theater is using on either of its entrance as well as detached building being for a green room and offices.
The eviction comes after Martin’s and Stiteler’s proposal to develop a multi-million dollar arts and entertainment complex in the Rialto block was effectively killed by the City Council after it voted to further delay approval of the project beyond a previously set June 17 deadline.
Martin said a previous offer to lease the privately-owned space to the theater at below-market rates is no longer on the table.
“They have publicly come out and are trying to condemn this property,” Martin said. “My lawyer is telling me that it is kind of cross purposes to continue to offer the below-market rate because if it does go to condemnation, that helps set the value of the property.”
Martin says the theater has not negotiated in good faith.
“They want those properties, period,” he said. “They have always wanted those properties for nothing and they are not interested in working with us.”
The situation was the reverse in 2002 when Doug Biggers, now the executive director of the Rialto Theatre, was the landlord of the privately-owned property surrounding the theater and evicted the theater from the separate green room building. The theater itself was owned at the time by Paul Bear and Jeb Schoonover.
That same green room building is the same space Biggers and the Rialto’s foundation insists is vital to the theater’s future and central to the decision in June by the city council to delay Martin’s and Stiteler’s development plan.
“This is exactly what we went through with Biggers,” Bear said in an interview. “The big difference is, Biggers wants it for free and I was willing to pay him market rate for the property.”
But unlike this year, there was no cry of foul or city council drumming up a “save the theater” campaign when Biggers evicted the Rialto in 2002.
The Rialto had moved into the privately-owned spaces in 2001 after Bear and Schoonover leased the block surrounding the theater at 318 E. Congress St. As part of that lease, the two had an option to buy the block but when Biggers offered to buy it, they agreed to let that option go. Biggers was the founder of the Tucson Weekly alternative newspaper and had sold it in 2000. The Weekly is currently owned by Wick Communications, a privately-held company that also owns Inside Tucson Business.
Bear said that after Biggers bought the Rialto block in 2002, the two of them were in negotiations to allow the theater to continue using the green room building but those negotiations came to an abrupt end. Biggers gave the Rialto a 10-day notice to vacate the green room building and all spaces not owned by the theater.
“He just had a mental breakdown in my opinion,” Bear said. “He went crazy one day and started evicting tenants. The building was probably 90 percent leased between the apartments and the storefronts and he just started evicting everyone and throwing tenants out of the building that were paying rent. It wasn’t logical. He had no plans, no permits. And the buildings have sat vacant since that day. During this whole time, they could have had that building 90-to-100 percent occupied with people paying rent. But to just throw everyone out and have the buildings sitting empty for six to seven years just seems pretty stupid.”
For his part, Biggers says the dispute with Bear was due to some major miscommunication and misrepresentations that led to a falling out between the two of them.
“It’s not something I’m proud of, but at the time it seemed like the only way to break the logjam,” Biggers said.
He also said he was being pushed to do the evictions by his partners in Congress Street Investors LLC, who had plans to renovate the buildings on the block. Those plans, though, were never developed.
Bear and Schoonover continued to own and operate the Rialto for another two years without the use of the privately-owned spaces adjacent to it.
In 2004, the Rio Nuevo Multipurpose Facilities District, which had been created in 1999 by the Legislature and city voter approval, acquired the Rialto theater from Bear and Schoonover. At that time Biggers was named executive director and the theater moved back into the spaces that were owned by the investment group in which he was a partner.
To this day Bear says the use of the privately-owned spaces could be advantageous to the Rialto for possible expansion but he doesn’t believe they are vital to the operation of the theater, as its foundation claims.
“In my opinion they’ve been practicing nothing more than political extortion,” Bear said. “Saying those spaces are needed for the viability of the theater simply isn’t true. The theater operated from the 1920s to the 1970s without that space. I bought it and used it since 1995 to 2001 without that space. It would be nice to expand, but it simply is not true that these spaces are vital.”
Bear said there numerous other options, including using a green room and dressing rooms that already existence below the Rialto’s stage.
“That is traditionally where the green room has always been and it’s approximately 2,500 square feet, the same amount of space as the back building,” Bear said. “The lot behind the stage house is another approximately 2,500 square feet on the ground and you could build up 60 to 70 feet if you wanted to. The city has taken away public use of Herbert Avenue so you could expand there.”
Bear admits there is an issue with using the green room below the stage stemming from sewer lines that are clogged.
“They spent something like $60,000 to add offices on to that adjacent building, not related to green rooms,” Bear said. “Fixing the sewer would have only cost around $6,000. Instead they spent all that money on a lot [the theater] didn’t own and to improve a space they didn’t have a lease to.”
As for the other spaces being used by the Rialto, the foundation is planning to put a full bar in the theater and build new restrooms in one of the storage areas.
Biggers has purchased a series six liquor license permit, which is scheduled to come up for city council approval on Aug. 5. There could be two issues, though, with that. One is that the theater is within 300-feet of a charter school and the other is that Martin plans to protest it, saying the liquor license involves property the Rialto doesn’t own.
Rialto ownership timeline 1995-Present
• 1995: Paul Bear and Jeb Schoonover purchase the Rialto Theatre
• 2001: Bear and Schoonover lease the remaining property on the Rialto block with an option to purchase it. The Rialto moves into a separate building for use as a green room and office.
• 2002: Tucson Weekly founder Doug Biggers, who sold the newspaper in 2000, purchases the Rialto block not including the theater. Biggers evicts the Rialto from the green room building.
• 2003: Congress Street Investors LLC is formed to gain investors to help renovate Rialto block and areas around downtown. The group of about 20 investors includes managing members Yoram Levy, Thomas Warne, Donald Semro and Biggers.
• 2004: Rio Nuevo Multipurpose Facilities District, which was established in 1999, purchases Rialto from Bear and Schoonover; theater moves back into separate green room building space. Rialto Theatre Foundation is formed and Biggers is named the theater’s executive director.
• 2006: Congress Street Investors sells the Rialto block to Biggers and architect Tom Powers, who at the time was president of the Rialto Theatre Foundation.
• 2007: Biggers brings in Don Martin, CEO of Competitive Engineering Inc., as an investor in the Rialto block to buy out Powers’ interest.
• 2008: Martin buys out Biggers’ interest in the Rialto block partnership.
• 2009: Rialto Theatre Foundation says green room space now owned by Martin is vital to the operation of the theater, which becomes focal point of City Council’s decision to kill a development deal for an arts and entertainment complex for the Rialto block proposed by Martin with partner and developer Scott Stiteler. In June, Martin and Stiteler ask Rialto to pay rent, including back rent, for use of green room building. On July 2, Rialto receives eviction notice.
Contact reporter Joe Pangburn at jpangburn@azbiz.com or (520) 295-4259.
Taken from http://www.azbiz.com/articles/2009/07/10/n…
I love the Rialto theater, but it appears to me that the people of Tucson are getting a raw deal out of this either way. Ticket prices are out of control for many shows, and considering we subsidize the operating costs and improvement costs through our tax dollars and donations, it is pretty ridiculous.
Not all is bad, the Rialto has become a venue for some amazing local shows and is now bringing in acts that used to skip Tucson. The Rialto also stimulates economic development downtown indirectly through the spending of its patrons. I think the theater would be better off if it were not controlled by a non-profit being funded by the city. This city has proven time and time again that it cannot manage anything well.
Does a 5 year or a 10 year plan exist for the operations and further development of the theater itself, independent of the block around it? Is there any chance that the non-profit will pay back the tax payers some day? Do you think you will be able to make a profit after the 4th avenue underpass reopens, or will you just raise ticket prices that much more?
Biggers may have some altruistic goals, but his means of achieving those goals are suspect and shady. Is this a symptom of the game in which he has to play or a consequence of the rules he has helped set over the last decade of involvement with the Rialto?
I don’t pretend to know. I do know that the people of Tucson are the only ones hurt by this fracas.
Here’s the correct version of the Inside Tucson Business fictional story, as published in today’s edition. The story by Joe Pangburn was a pathetic attempt to write a hit piece, with a primary source whose credibility is laughable.
Let’s get some facts straight about Rialto Theatre’s impending eviction
By Doug Biggers, special to Inside Tucson Business
Published on Friday, July 17, 2009
In the July 13 issue of Inside Tucson Business, I believe the story about the Rialto Theatre’s impending eviction from some of the spaces it uses was riddled with errors and was intended to promote a negative image of me and the Rialto Theatre.
As the former editor and publisher of the Tucson Weekly, I have no problem with stories that have a point of view. In fact, the notion that journalism should be objective is largely a fallacy. What is important, however, is to be certain that statements presented as fact are accurate. I don’t believe that happened in this instance.
Let me refute some of the comments in that article that were made by Paul Bear, former owner of the Rialto Theatre:
• Bear states the Rialto Theatre Foundation has requested the developers of a proposed downtown arts and entertainment complex convey the spaces in question at no cost.
Not true. We have consistently said the property should be conveyed to the Rio Nuevo District, owner of the Rialto Theatre, for fair market value. Developers Don Martin and Scott Stiteler, owners of the block, have previously agreed that the Rialto needs those spaces and they should be conveyed to the district. They are now unwilling to do so.
• There was no public outcry when the Rialto Theatre was evicted from these spaces when I owned the Rialto Block, according to the article.
I would argue that’s because by that point the Rialto Theatre had no real public support.
• Bear states that I had a “mental breakdown” and “went crazy one day and started evicting tenants.” Further, he states that I had “no plans, no permits.”
The statement about a breakdown is simply ludicrous, and borders on the libelous. In late 2003 the owner of the Rialto Block was a company called Congress Street Investors LLC. I had a minority interest in that company and was one of four managers. Congress Street Investors had permitted construction documents for rehabilitation of the second floor of the Rialto Building and was ready to proceed with construction. Consequently, the building was vacated with more than 90 days’ notice to prepare for impending construction. Unfortunately, the managers decided not to proceed but that was not my decision.
The rehabilitation of the Rialto Building has been an earnest pursuit of mine for the last seven years; unfortunately, I was never in position of outright control of the project and it slipped from owner to owner, none of which have moved forward. Downtown revitalization is complex, risky and fraught with many obstacles.
• Bear’s opinion that the Rialto doesn’t need these spaces is baseless.
The Rialto Theatre of today is a professional music venue operating at a much higher level than it was previously. In its July 20, 2009, issue, concert industry trade publication Pollstar released its mid-year rankings of Worldwide Club Venues and the Rialto Theatre ranks number 42 worldwide in ticket sales, blowing away major venues in top 10 markets across the United States. The Rialto Theatre is one of the top 50 club venues in the world.
In the last six months, the Rialto Theatre Foundation has engaged in intensive efforts to ensure the protection of a historic theater owned by the citizens of Tucson and arguably one of the few success stories of the trouble Rio Nuevo project.
Our efforts to negotiate in good faith with Mr. Martin and Mr. Stiteler have been extremely frustrating. Unfortunately, for reasons that are not readily apparent, Mr. Martin and Mr. Stiteler have chosen to punish the Rialto rather than seek a cooperative, amicable and mutually beneficial resolution that would truly be in the community’s best interest. We continue to hope for a change in the context of this conflict.
Douglas Biggers is executive director of the Rialto Theatre Foundation.
In 1993 an ugly battle took place in Mogadishu between American military forces and the militia of a notorious Somali warlord. Several thousand feet overhead, a P-3 Orion aircraft circled, monitoring the whole tragic event. There wasn’t much that could be done from up there, other than observe.
Of all the voices speaking up in this heated Rialto drama, Curtis’s is most refreshing to hear. His writing is first-rate, as is the caliber of work he’s done for the theater. His personal pride is well-deserved, and he has given his employer and community something probably nobody else could have.
Now, if I may offer a few cautious notes from up here:
(1) All this Pollstar talk may not be helping things. Most people don’t know what Pollstar is, nor do they understand the relevant distinction of “club venue” versus any other type. (Intuitively, most folks think of a “theater” as something other than a “club” anyway. You go to a theater to see Lucinda Williams. You go to a club to see Wu-Tang. You go the Rialto to see either, I suppose, but I was trying to make a point here and now you’ve made me forget what it was and the fucking popcorn is burning in the microwave, it’s been like thirty seconds since the last pop.) Anyway, where was I? Oh yes, Pollstar. People get suspicious anyway when someone, who wants something, starts dropping persuasive stats on them. You just want to sound as unlike you’re selling toothpaste as possible.
(2) Stop talking about your “needs” already, for Christ. I know that sounds nuts, but I’m trying to give you PR advice here and you’re obviously still reading this. Talk about your accomplishments instead. (They’re numerous and significant.) Everybody already knows what the RTF needs. But not everybody knows all the wonderful things you’ve done.
(3) Don’t issue stern directives to already-uncooperative people. (e.g. “do the right thing.) You’re not Spike Lee. And even if you were, I doubt Don Martin would respond well to that kind of talk. I fondly remember from my childhood his illustrations in Mad Magazine, and I don’t think he was the “right thing” type of guy even then.
(4) Get a massage. Or something to that effect. Go to one of those Vietnamese foot ladies. You and doug. (You could do a publicity photo and send it to Inside Tucson Business.) But seriously, find a way to get out to the coast for a day or two, get some of this shit momentarily out of your system. Being embattled is hard on the soul, especially when you’re on the wrong end of the money train. The weather’s been awful lately, the economy’s fucked and the fourth avenue tunnel has been closed for way too long. In a short time, the air will be cool. The tunnel will be open. The trolly will be making its rounds, music will be playing and Mr. McFeeley will be delivering the mail.
I may have have gotten of the track, here. But my overall point here is (and now I’m being serious) things seem to have gotten very nasty. That’s a hard condition in which to get good work done. Pissing contests are, as a general rule, bad. I think that’s why the re-designed the urinal in the men’s room at the Hotel Congress.
Actually I forgot my point. It had something to do with the Rialto needing things and Downtown needing things. (It’s late.) Downtown Tucson needs so many things, it’s hard to keep them straight. But one thing Downtown Tucson has been very fortunate to have, perhaps more than any other human resource in its modern history, is Curtis McCrary.
Thanks for sharing, Myrtle.