All I did was say, when I was a guest on the Buckmaster Show, that Republican legislators and Governor Brewer should be ashamed of themselves for refusing to give the $317 million to our schools mandated by law, even though a judge says they have to — right now. Then I said something about them balancing the budget on the backs of children. Was that so wrong?
Apparently the callers who filled the rest of the show (I’ve never had that kind of a call-in response before) thought so. After two tinfoil hatters, the rest were more reasonable — wrong, but more reasonable. I tried to set them straight, but I wish I had the same delete and rewrite capabilities when I have a mic in front of me that I have when I put fingers to keyboard. (And then I shoulda said . . .)
The first half of the show is an interesting Buckmaster interview with Bishop Gerald Kicanas. A good man, even if I disagree with him about vouchers. I come in at about the 30 minute mark.
This article appears in Aug 21-27, 2014.
…”the state should at least get credit for paying more than was required during the flush years of the early 2000s.”
More than required? How great were those results? Funding , even to excess, does not improve education.
They must look inside for the answers.
Dave, I heard the program and admire your restraint. For most of the calls there is a short answer: the court order to pay what state law requires to be paid has nothing to do with the debate on how the districts spend the money. However, you do a very nice job countering on the issues raised by callers.
Thanks Jana. I try to keep my teacher face on when I’m talking to people like that, to explain differences rather than shouting the caller down when I disagree. I wish I had a second try at answering that last caller, about the percentage of money spent in the classroom in TUSD. I went at the answer from the wrong angle and got trapped into her formulation rather than using a different approach to the question. Ah well. No take-backs in radio, I guess.
I had the same thought about the classroom spending issue. While the percentage of the total budget spent in the classroom could indicate efficiency to some extent, a more important stat in this case might be the dollar amount spent in each classroom. With all of the spending mandated (and funded) by the deseg case, it skews the percentage downward. It would be interesting to know what percentage of the combined M&O and Title I budgets are spent in the class room. That might make for a more meaningful comparison.
Lots of ways to go. The first for me would be, the less you spend per student, the lower the percentage that goes into the classroom, since the fixed expenses don’t change. You can always put a few more desks and children in a classroom without hiring another teacher. That’s why Arizona and other states that spend less per student also spend a lower percentage in the classroom.
Another issue, and I don’t know if this is true, if TUSD pays a lower teacher salary than some other districts, that would lower the percentage spent on the classroom. And as you said, put together the spending on deseg and various ELL and poverty-related programs that TUSD probably has more of than neighboring districts, and that could change the percentage.
But there’s always another question: was the caller right that TUSD spends a significantly lower percentage in the classroom than neighboring districts? I don’t honestly know.
TUSD balances its budget on the backs of children every day. You have made no comments about the fact that the superintendent’s cabinet received 5 figure bonuses in their contracts. Couldn’t that money be spent directly on the classroom? What’s your position on the salary structure in TUSD? Do the exorbitant salaries paid out to central office administrators take money out of the classroom? Who was impacted the most by the economic downturn? It wasn’t central office administration, it was students, teachers, and classified staff members. The truth is those salaries and that kind of misappropriation of funds robs children everyday. No bonus should ever be paid out to anyone while students are without adequate resources to educate them first. Why aren’t you criticizing the TUSD governing board and leadership for this?
How are they supposed to pay this “right now”?
David, You need to do yourself a favor and download the most current report on school district spending by the Arizona Auditor General. Checking the audited numbers in this document would give you the information to correctly answer school finance questions and not speak as if all districts got the same level of funding. The fact is that TUSD…in the most recent report, took in more than $1700 more PER PUPIL than Vail ($8,421 per pupil versus $6,695 per pupil.) TUSD took in more than $1600 more PER PUPIL than Sunnyside, ($8,421 versus $6,759) another district with a high percentage of poor and minority students.
You must have at least a nodding acquaintance with the research on what school factors make a real difference in student learning. That research is clear that the ONLY school factor that makes a significant difference is quality teaching. No program, no administrator, no curricular choices, no particular set of standards…in short, nothing that schools provide except for quality teaching…makes a difference for student learning. It is inexcusable for TUSD…which gets so much more money PER PUPIL than other local districts AND enjoys huge economies of scale spends less than half its revenues in the classroom. TUSD only spent 49.2% of its revenues in the classroom. A lot of the money that should have gone to the classroom went to administration. TUSD spent 10.2% of its revenues on educational bureaucracy. This was much more than other districts in its size category. By contrast, Vail spent 56% of its revenues in the classroom. BTW, this report has the percent spent in the classroom for every district in the state.
Having said all of that, I would argue that if the state legislature really wants to get more bang for its education dollar…and not just shortchange traditional public schools to be able to give extras to charter schools and divert more public money to private schools…then the best thing the legislature could do is to increase state funding for all public schools in accordance with the voter approved initiative AND require that districts spend no less than 55% of their total revenues in the classroom where it will actually make a difference for student learning.
Marty, you’ve clearly looked into the finance issues more carefully than I have. And you’re right that TUSD gets more per student than neighboring districts, so far as I know. I simply haven’t looked deeply enough into this, nor do I have the understanding of budgets I need to come up to a clear, definitive conclusion.
I think you’re being overly simplistic when you say the only thing that matters is “quality teaching,” but I’ll bet if we went back and forth and hashed it out, our conclusions wouldn’t be that far apart. Lots of it depends on the definition of the term “quality teaching.” Nonetheless, as a teacher from the beginning to the end of my career, I agree that nothing is more important than that place where the rubber meets the road — the teacher working with students in the classroom. Everything else is there to make sure that interaction is as effective as possible (Now it’s me who’s being overly simplistic!).
David, I agree with just about everything in your last comment, and I expect we agree on 95+% of education issues. I was also a teacher for all of my lengthy career, and I worked with hundreds of other teachers and thousands of students. I worked in two states that were not right-to-work states so i was also active in the union. (I was on strike four times in my career.)
My attitudes are …as they are for most people…shaped largely by my own experiences. I found that what took place outside classrooms (pullout programs) was largely irrelevant in impacting student outcomes. I had plenty of students who had bilingual services, speech and language therapy, special education resource help, gifted ed, physical therapy, etc… In most cases the out of classroom time was enjoyable for the kids, but not terribly productive. To me quality teaching is essentially being able to create a safe and secure environment where students can focus on their studies, knowing a variety of pedagogical approaches to help students learn at their own pace to the extent that having a class of 25+ kids allows..and helping kids learn to think for themselves.
While I never listen to “talk radio” I am not surprised at the response a reasonable person would receive expressing any type progressive views to people with nothing to do but listen to radio shows. Talk radio is nothing but entertainment not news or an exercise in learning. I am not in education, barely made it out of high school. The Governor needs a kick in the backside and a massive out cry to call a special session of the Legislature and pay up the Court ordered money to public schools.
Waiting for the regular session of the Legislature with the political charades the leadership demonstrates and the dysfunctional members display will result in no solid accomplishment. Sneaky, tricky sweeps of funds from dedicated revenue (or what should be dedicated funds) is fraudulent budget balancing.
A special session with a narrow objective will cut down on the smoke and mirror distractions the few in control use to promote a few profiteers and payback special interests who furnish campaign funds.
To encourage more quality in the classroom and promote real academic achievement not phony test score education, send teachers to drama classes during summer recess. Teach the teachers to provide stimulating lessons, classroom involvement and dramatic experiences as part of their teaching patterns. If we can’t enlist the parents in the process at least make the classroom a rewarding educational exchange for the kids.
The entire orientation of school is built around stopping kids thinking for themselves and learning to look to authority to tell them what the right answer is, what is important, and even when they can go to the bathroom.
There are so many wonderful teachers, every one I’ve ever met cares deeply for the kids, but the basic model is so broken that money is the least of its problems. I’d still like to see more spending, but mainly because the teachers deserve a raise.
The Buckmaster Show is on KVOI 1030 AM.
I happened to stop at a Walgreens drugstore on Saturday and was surprised by what I found. TUSD school clothing (t shirts, sweatshirts, hoodies and hats) bearing HS names. The tag said, “a portion of the proceeds from the sale of this item directly benefit the school).
Where would a taxpayer look to find a report of ALL the other income sources to the public schools, that we are continually told “are under funded?”
I will bet there is no answer.
“Was that so wrong?”
No, David, you are correct. The Governor and the Legislature SHOULD be ashamed for defying the law, and for balancing the budget on the backs of the most vulnerable.
You ARE absolutely correct!
May you always keep your eye on the ball, and may you let the haters and distractors run off your back like water runs off a duck.
Remember, we are entitled to our efforts, but not to the outcome. The haters and distractors will most likely always be there. May your most positive efforts on behalf of public education continue.
Had someone been keeping their eye on the ball this wouldn’t have happened in the first place. David has yet to outline how the 300 million is supposed to be paid for now.
Are there not sufficient funds in the “rainy day budget” to cover this right now? What is the definition of a rainy day if not this?
I am a 16-year veteran teacher still in my TUSD classroom, and like many of my colleagues am exploring other careers. Veteran teachers are especially encouraged to leave, as they might actually be too effective in inspiring students to think for themselves. The District owes many of us thousands of dollars, and simply does not pay. Our Superintendent got a raise on the promise of supporting teachers in our quest to force the legislature to follow the mandate voters wanted, but it has gotten nowhere. Many of us received letters that we are owed thousands of dollars in back pay, and most of us haven’t received a penny. Recruiting new teachers from the bottom of the barrel to fit the compensation package seems to be the current zeitgeist.
Yes Bob, here’s a start on the issue of how to pay for past sins. Use the rainy day fund. Then call a special session and repeal the vouchers and tax credits for private schools that are sucking money out of the general fund into religious education. (And people accuse public schools of indoctrination? LMAO!) After that, raise the revenue that voters have demanded and that is the legislators’ obligation. Finally, publicize the name of every legislator who voted for the cuts, vouchers and tax credits and make this an election issue. Other states have figured out how to fund public education at a much higher level than we do, so this cannot be rocket science.
My neighbor asked, who elects these people in the first place?
Did you vote in the last election?
Yes, I guess your candidates didn’t win.
David: As Marty pointed out earlier, check out the Arizona Auditor General’s report on the schools. It does show that TUSD’s percent spent in the classroom declined from 53% to 49% over a five year period. It also shows that TUSD spent more than both peer and state averages on non-classroom spending including administration. That does suggest that adjustments need to be made. But…..the data is an indicator but not the final answer more questions should be asked of the Superintendent, questions like “How do you explain this?”
All that said, I like your columns. Insightful and written with the perspective of an educator.