AZ Illustrated Politics: City Council Races, Gay Marriage, Rosemont Delay & More

1. My compliments to Jim as a most capable moderator, I like his style.

   This program begins by noting that 25% of Pima County’s residents live in poverty, truly a shame. There is a solution. It is called good jobs, but this escaped Jeff Rogers, the liberal mouthpiece for the job-killing Democratic Party as he is still against the critical Rosemont Mine which will produce very good jobs for many.

   If you are waiting for a liberal Democrat to support true job creation, you are in for a long, disappointing wait. Vote the bums out – support development and growth.

2. Antenori – such a has-been.

3. Bisbee is a prime example of the “good jobs” that Rosemont might bring. A few people with good lobs make some money, which they will then they take to Canada and leave a hole in the ground, a polluted water table and a bunch of inexpensive houses for sale. Later, in a few decades, artists will discover the cheap housing and move in, and the development will commence.

4. Quaking,

   Bisbee operated for almost 100 years, providing good jobs and opportunity for thousands and thousands of fine, hardworking people. It is indeed a perfect example of how natural resources can and will build and support the middle class.

   Yes there is a large hole there and, for your information, it is the third time the same area was mined. As technology brought improved mining and recovery techniques, more and more vital copper was recovered from lower and lower grade materials. It is my sincere hope, indeed my belief that Bisbee will once again be a viable mining site and again contribute to the well-being of our State and Country.

   As for the ground water at Bisbee, it was never pristine. A quick read of Bisbee’s history will tell you that. Nature had loaded it with minerals long before man ever came to the New World. But in this regard, it is very different from Rosemont in that it is a different type of mineral deposit in a very dissimilar geologic environment. Ground water will not be an issue at the Rosemont Project, given the different nature of geologic environments, mining approaches and the current environmental management systems employed successfully in so many similar mines.

   I hope the above information will put your mind at ease. If not, I am more than glad to assist. As a point of interest, I am not affiliated with Rosemont in any way, nor do I know anyone in the company. I just want the people of Pima County to have the opportunity to enjoy good employment opportunities and the Rosemont Project is one such opportunity.

5. BB, Where is that middle class now?

   For those hundred years, many miners were employed…but not so many are needed now with mechanization. And the miners who were employed there were constantly battling for better pay and working conditions. Mine owners used the AZ Rangers to break strikes and the USBP to deport problem workers…whether they were citizens or not. I suspect unions will still be frowned upon by owners. Owners who are taking advantage of our country’s antiquated mining law to take money out of the country.

   And there is still that hole in the round…and the tailings. And there is surface water…and we are all downhill from there. And they are going to need some water for their mining operations…and electricity. And we will pay for that, too.

   I know I can’t change your mind, but you can’t convince me, either, that this is a good idea for how to treat our public lands.

6. Quaking,
   I suggest that you brush up on your Arizona history. The miners were extremely well paid and received benefits such as disability pay, life insurance and medical coverage 50 years before it was ever thought of elsewhere. There was not a constant battle for better wages and working conditions as Bisbee offered the best of both, as do the copper mines of today such as Morenci, Bagdad, etc.

   The Arizona Rangers never, ever were used to quell labor problems as there were none of consequence until 1917 when treasonous anarchist, who were disavowed by the unions of the time, forced a partial work stoppage to cutoff vital war materials. The deportation of these radicals was carried out by vigilante residents in concert with the Cochise County sheriff. A true public service by all involved, in my view.

   Public lands are for the benefit of public as a whole and the extractive industries benefit many beyond those directly employed. Thus, their use for metal mining, coal mining oil, natural gas production and timber harvesting has long been recognized as good for the public.

   If you are truly concerned about foreign companies taking money out of our country, buy American products. This is far more injurious to our economy than a foreign mining company taking profits on a multi-billion dollar investment made in developing a mine.

   It is, after all, the basic industries that generate true wealth for a country and its peoples. I, for one, am tired of exporting these good jobs to countries in Africa and South American. I want my fellow Americans to work in jobs with dignity and fair pay. Mining offers both.

7. We are going to disagree about history, too. Even high school students came up with this on the deportation of 1917. It was not a public service, it was done for Phelps-Dodge owners.

   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXOVp9LLRAU

   The copper industry has never shown much interest in sharing the wealth that is generated.

   I don’t want to subsidize their business.

8. Quaker,
   You are being misled on the deportation by history revisionist. I was born in Bisbee and personally knew dozens of men involved in the deportation on both sides and received many first hand remembrances less than 30 years after the event. This includes my wife’s uncles – both of Mexican/Italian descent and both were a part of the vigilante group that helped deport the trouble-makers. Our family photo album contains a number of photos of this roundup and they support what I was told those many years ago.

   As for sharing the wealth, at Bisbee Phelps Dodge built, stocked and staffed the public library for 97 years; two mining companies built and operated two first-class, public use hospitals, with PD continuing to do so until 1977; the mining companies brought in drinking water and electricity, built public transportation provided quality housing at almost no costs to many employees; operated a fine mercantile chain with quality goods and fair prices and which even supported miners with no-interest credit when they went on strike in 1958 and 1967. Churches, gymnasiums, parks and more; I would suggest that this is sharing the wealth.

   Importantly, we as citizens do not subsidize a mining operation any more than we subsidize a Wal-Mart or Safeway. Mining, activities pay their own way. Mines, unlike factories that make cars or solar panels or things like sport’s arenas do not seek tax payer support or special tax considerations. The citizens gain from the presence of extractive industries, i.e. North Dakota today is booming because of this with no taxpayer support. Pima County should give it a try as well.

9. But when mining takes place on public land, taxes support it. When they use our water, our infrastructure provides it. And when they make a mess, Superfund is often left to clean it up. And it turns out, we are supporting WalMart with our tax money by providing public assistance to their underpaid employees. And I think it is too soon to declare ND a success story…Texas comes to mind…the damage done by fracking is still coming to light.

   And the reading of history is also colored by political bent, after all, we still have white supremacists who are proud of their klan heritage and people who still dismiss the IWW as a few communist/anarchists who were messing things up for everyone.

10. Quaker,
    Your comments on taxes supporting business are too Obamaesque for me. I see it the other way around in that businesses generate employment and income, both of which contribute to the tax base, which in turn is used for public infrastructure development, not the reverse.

    I will confess to being one of those who still sees the IWW as bad guys. Anarchist and treasonous at the time, for sure; communist, I am not so certain, but definitely anti-capitalist. There is a difference.

11. So, bottom line, it is the Capitalists against the treasonous, Anarchist Communists?

    See also
    truth-out.org/opinion/item/18972-mexican-c…

12. Quaker,

    We agree on something, it is the capitalist against the Commies. We had better hurry however, as the true Communist are losing ground quickly, with holdouts only in glorious North Korea, Cuba, Vietnam and a very few other such paradises. Seems that wherever Capitalism is tried it is a success, including China, which is more capitalist every day, something I have seen blossom during my 30+ trips to China during the last 20 years.

    Thank you for the link, I found it entertaining, but absolutely rife with misrepresentations and half-truths as well as some down-right lies. Here too I have some firsthand experience – I know the country – I know the language and culture – I know the issues – I know the relevant laws – most of all, I know the anti-development/nationalistic kooks that are trying to keep the people in poverty by stopping any and all development. These largely foreign financed non-governmental organizations are condemning another generation of Mexicans to a life little education and stiffening poverty.

13. Bisbee boy, Quaker is certainly right on this point “The copper industry has never shown much interest in sharing the wealth that is generated.” – research Ludlow Massacre, CO

14. Look it up, Folks

    The Ludlow, Colorado event was the result of the Colorado militia becoming involved in a legitimate labor dispute with coal miners. A most unfortunate event, but not unique in American labor history.

    There is no parallel in Arizona copper mining history and I am missing your point concerning copper mining companies. Could you kindly clarify. And too, I would suggest you read my above note on but a few of the many things the copper mining companies did at Bisbee. I personally benefited for their largess.

    Are you aware that the Mines and Geology Building at the U of A was built by Phelps Dodge, a copper company?

15. Bisbee boy, re; “a few of the many things the copper mining companies did at Bisbee.”

    “The working class and the employing class have nothing in common,” stated the Industrial Workers of the World in the preamble to their platform emerging from hard-fought struggles with western mine owners. One prominent Wobbly was Bisbee miner Joe Hill, a Swedish immigrant. In July 1917 two thousand paid vigilantes rounded up twelve hundred mine worker Wobblies in Bisbee, Arizona, and ran them out of town on cattle cars. A victory for the Bisbee mine owners.

16. ignorance is bliss,

    You are truly blissful then, regarding the Bisbee Deportation in as much as you are parroting comments and you are ignorant of the truth. As you can see from one of my comments above, this is something I am very familiar with, as I knew many on both sides, including my wife’s uncles who assisted the Cochise County Sheriff in deporting these treasonous anarchist. No one was paid for deporting the Wobblies. Also important only a small number of those deported were employees of any of the four major mining companies.

    The reality of the IWW was that it was not a labor union but rather an anti-capitalist/anti-war social movement. The deportation of these men was a victory for the whole of the country, but most of all for the good people of Bisbee, as they were now free of those who threatened the families of the men who wanted to work.

    A read of the transcripts of only trial from this event would enlighten you a great deal

Comments are closed.