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Re: “Statewide Voucher Initiatives Has Been Voted Down Everywhere, Every Time

NOT A RANCHO SNOB, you should have kept reading:

"That tells you that a single question on the concept of vouchers does not tell the whole story, said State Board of Education President Michael Kirst, who wrote analyses for both voucher initiatives. 'Support eroded for vouchers the more that voters learned about the details and the implications,' he said. He said to accurately measure public opinion, there should be several questions, such as: 'Would you support a voucher program if it funded students already in private school? Would you support it if it only went to low-income children? Or paid for only a portion of the tuition?''

So in other words, contra Safier, the way the question is framed does matter. Support changes significantly as the wording changes and the details of the proposal that goes to the electorate change.

Also of interest in the same article: "African Americans, who elsewhere in the poll express the least satisfaction with public schools, are the most supportive, with 73 percent favoring vouchers, followed by Latinos, with 69 percent favoring vouchers, Asians with 56 percent and whites with 51 percent."

That would seem to suggest that the comment above which stated that support for vouchers is related to how well the public schools are meeting the needs of their constituents is correct. Minority populations that have traditionally been under-served in public schools support vouchers at higher rates than whites and Asians do. Schools serving high-SES neighborhoods that have majority white / Asian populations generally have higher functioning public schools.

People don't generally leave a neighborhood school that is convenient and comes with free transportation for trivial reasons. If they want to leave, let them leave, and let them apply the money that the state saves when they exit that school in a school that better meets their child's needs.

7 likes, 14 dislikes
Posted by Always read to the end, then draw conclusions. on 04/21/2017 at 12:35 PM

Re: “Statewide Voucher Initiatives Has Been Voted Down Everywhere, Every Time

allen s, you should have kept reading:

PPICs 13th annual K-12 survey would appear at odds with California voters strong past opposition to vouchers. Twice before, in 1993 and 2000, voters rejected voucher initiatives, with 70 percent voting against them each time. However, in 1998, two years before the last vote and the last time that PPIC polled Californians on the issue, 58 percent of adults favored vouchers while 36 percent opposed them.

That means that answering a poll is different than actually VOTING for something.

Nice try.

16 likes, 7 dislikes
Posted by Not a Rancho Snob on 04/21/2017 at 12:17 PM

Re: “Statewide Voucher Initiatives Has Been Voted Down Everywhere, Every Time

Statewide vouchers will HELP the public schools identify their problems, and deal with them. More tax dollars going to them only means much more of the same.

6 likes, 18 dislikes
Posted by Eleanor P (Cat lady) on 04/21/2017 at 12:07 PM

Re: “Statewide Voucher Initiatives Has Been Voted Down Everywhere, Every Time

Ever consider that the willingness of the electorate to support vouchers may vary in inverse relation to the functionality of the public school system in a given state, i.e. where there are low functioning public schools, there will be high support for vouchers; where there are high functioning public schools, there will be low support for vouchers?

Coming from a blue state that had high functioning public schools, my initial stance was anti-voucher. After several years of observing what is going on in TUSD's schools and on its Board and with its administration, I changed my position. Now I do support vouchers. But if you refuse to be honest about the fact that the ship is sinking, David, which you have consistently done for the four years that I have taken the trouble to read your misleading and deeply depressing "commentary," I guess you think you should get a "pass" on having to acknowledge that lifeboats are necessary to save as many lives / educations as possible from a school system that has descended to this now-probably-irreversible level of dysfunction.

You may hold the opinion that more children's futures should be sacrificed to the false God of WHAT PUBLIC SCHOOLS SHOULD BE, BUT IN ARIZONA ARE NOT AND NEVER WILL BE. Many of us -- more every day as the dysfunction of TUSD becomes ever more conspicuous to the broader community -- disagree with you.

8 likes, 15 dislikes
Posted by Whose needs matter, STUDENTS' or THE PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM'S? on 04/21/2017 at 10:35 AM

Re: “Statewide Voucher Initiatives Has Been Voted Down Everywhere, Every Time

"The numbers might move a bit if the questions on the two polls were phrased in a more voucher-friendly way, but not by enough to change the overall result."

Pure assertion. The questions in the polls you cite were asked in extremely biased, prejudicial ways, and there is absolutely no evidence to back up your claim that if the questions had been phrased differently, the results would not have been different.

What if the question were posed this way:
"Do all children with similar needs deserve to have exactly the same amount of tax funded support for their educations, or should it be legal for the state to discriminate economically against parents who are responsible enough to take the time and trouble to remove their children from malfunctioning / low performing neighborhood schools and to transport them at their own expense to schools that are able to meet their children's academic needs i.e. that enable their children to perform at the academic level that matches their ability level?"

9 likes, 14 dislikes
Posted by How the poll questions are phrased DOES make a difference. on 04/21/2017 at 10:32 AM

Re: “Diane Douglas Got Trumped. And DeVosed. And Maybe Duceyed. And It's a Damn Shame.

Impeachment on what grounds, that you are a sore loser? Get back to helping Make America Great Again.

Hate won't Trump Trump.

1 like, 9 dislikes
Posted by There Are Liars And Then There Are Liars on 04/21/2017 at 10:21 AM

Re: “Statewide Voucher Initiatives Has Been Voted Down Everywhere, Every Time

Updated 48 hours ago.

https://edsource.org/2017/majority-of-californians-polled-favor-school-vouchers/580456

I wonder just how much of what you believe just simply isn't true?

9 likes, 13 dislikes
Posted by Allen S on 04/21/2017 at 10:19 AM

Re: “The Skinny

Isn't it funny how Grijalva and fellow travelers are never concerned about the environmental impacts of drug smuggling and illegal immigration across the unsecured border?

- Migrants and smugglers dump an estimated 2,000 tons of trash and human waste in the borderlands every year - most of it in areas where it is very difficult to remove. (See https://legacy.azdeq.gov/obep/waste.html).

- Migrants and smugglers had cut an estimated 1300 miles of wildcat trails in the borderlands as of 2006. (See https://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/opini).

-Illegal aliens and smugglers regularly set wildfires, both to summon aid or to distract CBP, destroying hundreds of acres of vegetation a year. In fact, migrants are suspected of causing many of southern Arizona's most devastating fires of the last few years (Horseshoe 2, Monument, etc.). (See http://www.tucsonweekly.com/tucson/arizona).

Would a wall have some environmental impact? Sure. But so would doing nothing. Let's try to keep some perspective on both sides of the issue.

3 likes, 15 dislikes
Posted by Nathan K on 04/21/2017 at 10:06 AM

Re: “Diane Douglas Got Trumped. And DeVosed. And Maybe Duceyed. And It's a Damn Shame.

Don't you wonder why so many of Trump campaign advisors/contributors were meeting with Russian agents? Where are the people of America not calling for his impeachment? Do we actually have Democracy under the Republicans?

9 likes, 1 dislike
Posted by freedomspeaks on 04/21/2017 at 9:23 AM

Re: “Diane Douglas Got Trumped. And DeVosed. And Maybe Duceyed. And It's a Damn Shame.

DeVos brother met with the Russians on a secluded just prior to Trump taking his oath of office. Both are billionaires from MI, Brother is now living in another country. He left the USA

9 likes, 1 dislike
Posted by voiceoffreedom on 04/21/2017 at 9:20 AM

Re: “Statewide Voucher Initiatives Has Been Voted Down Everywhere, Every Time

The Republicans want all the power so they try to pass any bills to take away the rights of the people and communities. It's called DICTATORSHIP

18 likes, 9 dislikes
Posted by votesmartamerica on 04/21/2017 at 9:16 AM

Re: “The Pima County Fair is Back and You Don't Want to Miss It

SCAMMER BUSTED !!!!!!!!!!!

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10212266112265578&set=pcb.10212266144706389&type=3&theater

1 like, 0 dislikes
Posted by Greg Attaway on 04/21/2017 at 4:53 AM

Re: “Tucson Salvage

The best smoke shop in town characterized by honest, fair prices, and distinguished customer service

3 likes, 0 dislikes
Posted by Mohamad Mashour on 04/21/2017 at 3:40 AM

Re: “Tale of Two Cities

"These decisions can't be left in the hands of developers, investors and corporations," Katters concludes.

Well that's exactly who's hands they are left in and no thanks to the Tucson Weekly who some of us remember not only allowed and accepted it, but tried to ridicule and shame anyone who criticized the downtown revitalization of the last 10 years.

Enjoy your rising rents, mediocre overpriced bars and restaurants, and for all intents and purposes shrinking of any true local arts and music scene with the expansion of the mall culture scene.

4 likes, 4 dislikes
Posted by Turdwagoneer on 04/21/2017 at 1:17 AM

Re: “RIP, Author and Activist Kathryn Ferguson

Beloved Kathryn; the world is a lesser place without you. You are free to dance on the mountain tops and the heavens are rejoicing to have the beauty of you among it's stars. You were my role model, hero and friend. I will so miss those great conversations with your incredible mind and shining soul. You were a force for love and good, with compassion for all you encountered. You could never have been here long enough for me, but I am so honored that we walked some of this journey together. Thank you, Kathryn, my friend. Journey on and fly free. With so much love, Trudy Yaklich

Posted by Trudy Yaklich on 04/20/2017 at 9:25 PM

Re: “Cox Technology Recycling Day

Oh man, are they asking for it!

Posted by Rick Fertal on 04/20/2017 at 6:00 PM

Re: “Booze Now, Food Later

I agree with working class. And what happened to your new food writer, Mark? Was just starting to like his style.

5 likes, 1 dislike
Posted by DsertDiner on 04/20/2017 at 3:21 PM

Re: “Money and Challengers, Oh My

Ah, so Rodney Glassman has resurfaced

4 likes, 4 dislikes
Posted by Pam Duchaine on 04/20/2017 at 3:02 PM

Re: “Tucson Salvage

A Muslin?

1 like, 4 dislikes
Posted by Scott Blessley on 04/20/2017 at 2:56 PM

Re: “Money and Challengers, Oh My

"And for the desperately poor people of her district?" They just finished 8 years with the fantastic Obama economy. What else could they need?

And now you link Koch with the Russians? You do know the Kochs opposed Trump, or do you?

Everyone else has dropped the Russian fake news. You might as well join them.

4 likes, 25 dislikes
Posted by Roger Jensen on 04/20/2017 at 2:13 PM

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