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Re: “Beating Cancer How You Live

Yea, Barb. Keep fighting!

Posted by SonoranWinds on 08/08/2017 at 11:22 AM

Re: “Here's What a Skills-Based Curriculum Means In Finland

Again, it really boils down to teacher preparation and esteem for the profession of teaching. Finland's teachers are not paid particularly well but students flock to teaching preparation degrees (a masters degree is required!). The degree programs are selective and graduates are viewed as professionals not public sector employees.

"Teachers in Finland can choose their own teaching methods and materials. They are experts of their own work and they test their own pupils. I think this is also one of the reasons why teaching is such an attractive profession in Finland because teachers are working like academic experts with their own pupils in schools." http://www.huffingtonpost.com/justin-snide…

One result of intensive preparation for a professional position is this: an astounding 85-90% of teachers in Finland remain in the profession until retirement. Half of new teachers in the USA leave after 5 years.

24 likes, 2 dislikes
Posted by Rick Spanier on 08/08/2017 at 10:28 AM

Re: “Here's What a Skills-Based Curriculum Means In Finland

"It can't be simply a matter of demographics, since neighboring countries don't score nearly as well . (Fun fact. Since Finland's neighbor Sweden went to a school choice model like the one loved by U.S. conservatives, complete with private school vouchers, its scores on the international tests have fallen)."

First, non-Sami Finns are both genetically relatively homogeneous and distinct from other European populations, including the other Nordics. Finns carry significant Asian-Siberian genetic admixture not found in other Nordics. See http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v536/…

Second, 27% of Sweden's population is now first or second generation immigrant, with about half originating from outside of Europe. You can't equate Sweden's demographics to those of Finland since Sweden is significantly and increasingly non-Nordic.

It may be that Finland's students score well on standardized tests because they are smarter, on average, than students in other populations.

4 likes, 20 dislikes
Posted by Nathan K on 08/08/2017 at 10:12 AM

Re: “Confessions of an eBay opium addict

No way anybody can be so strung out on pods.
It's not like heroin.
I did them for months straight, then I stopped because it was so expensive.
A little kratom took care of all the withdrawals.

Posted by Reginald Frazier on 08/08/2017 at 7:52 AM

Re: “Is the Strong Start Tucson Initiative a Good Idea?

I got the 8th grade data directly from IES via email while Superintendent. Three years further along than 5th grade same data.

The Hubbell telescope of education studies and you are mystified by results. Tells us all you need to know about education culture. Politically incorrect to present the truth.

This is the 98/99 kindergarten class, one that left 8th grade in 06/07.

They have since followed another entire cohort. Wonder why you never heard of that one either?

Why have we never heard about the 98/99 students who skipped kindergarten completely?

Why have we never heard about the 98/99 students who attended preschool versus those who didn't?

20,000 sample size, randomly selected.

3 likes, 16 dislikes
Posted by jhuppent@hotmail.com on 08/07/2017 at 7:05 PM

Re: “Is the Strong Start Tucson Initiative a Good Idea?

John, you gave me a Rand study about full day and half day K that goes through the fifth grade, not the eighth grade. And you know about the 8th grade results through an email which doesn't include a link to the actual research. You'll have to pardon me if I don't take that as a reasonable comment on my post about preschool's effects on people's lives beginning with high school graduation and going into early adulthood.

15 likes, 7 dislikes
Posted by David Safier on 08/07/2017 at 4:24 PM

Re: “Is the Strong Start Tucson Initiative a Good Idea?

David,

This is the analysis through 5th grade performed by RAND. The 8th grade results and the dollars spent on collecting data came directly from IES via email. Amazingly, I could not find a research study presenting the final results.

https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_briefs/…

Attendance in a Full-Day Kindergarten Program
Had Little Eff ect on Reading Achievement but Was
Negatively Associated with Mathematics Achievement
and the Development of Nonacademic School Readiness
Skills.
Th ere was little diff erence in the reading achievement of students
attending full-day or half-day kindergarten programs
as they progressed through school. However, in mathematics,
attendance in a full-day kindergarten program was
negatively associated with later fi ft h-grade performance
when the nonacademic readiness skills of students were
taken into account.
Children who participated in a full-day kindergarten
program demonstrated lower levels of nonacademic
readiness skills through the fi ft h grade, including poorer
dispositions toward learning, lower self-control, and
worse interpersonal skills than children in part-day
programs. Children in full-day programs also showed a
greater tendency to engage in externalizing and internalizing
problem behaviors than did children in part-day
programs.

4 likes, 15 dislikes
Posted by jhuppent@hotmail.com on 08/07/2017 at 2:44 PM

Re: “Arizona's Un-Credential. Is It the Beginning Of the End Of Teaching As a Profession?

Following up on Rick Spanier's comment above, our teaching colleges aren't just working with "average" material - they are working with below average material, if the relevant population is "college undergraduates". Education majors rank near the bottom of the college undergraduate population in terms of standardized test score and in terms of high school grades. See https://qz.com/334926/your-college-major-i…. This lead former Heritage analyst Jason Richwine to conclude that Americans school teachers are actually overcompensated when evaluated relative to jobs staffed by workers similar average IQs. See http://www.heritage.org/education/report/a….

For the record, I think that American school teachers do a fine job with the students that they have. But if I believed that American schools were deficient in some way, I would be looking for ways to get teachers into the classroom with more intellectual horsepower than the people working there now. The Arizona experiment might be a good place to start that effort.

1 like, 11 dislikes
Posted by Nathan K on 08/07/2017 at 2:05 PM

Re: “Is the Strong Start Tucson Initiative a Good Idea?

Before we decide to spend more money on pre-K, we might want to look at the Head Start data and last year's Vanderbilt study. The research on pre-K benefits is, at best, equivocal. The correlations that Safier asserts as causal relationships might be due to the fact that involved, high-IQ parents (who tend to have high-IQ children) also tend to send their children to preschool, and not due to the preschool itself.

3 likes, 14 dislikes
Posted by Nathan K on 08/07/2017 at 1:56 PM

Re: “Beating Cancer How You Live

Pardon, note that the wording "his believes" ought to be "his beliefs" or in context "what he believes", thank you.

0 likes, 3 dislikes
Posted by Aaron Johnson on 08/07/2017 at 8:45 AM

Re: “Is the Strong Start Tucson Initiative a Good Idea?

" research agrees that the benefits of early childhood education starts when the child enters school and continues into adulthood. "
This is simply not so. Plenty of research seems to show that the effects of preschool wear off or could even be negative.
https://www.brookings.edu/research/new-evi…
Only in low income and neglectful homes does the research seem to agree. In those homes removing the child from the home helps simply because they're no longer neglected. In that case CPS should step in and remove them.
The best place for children below the age of 5 is in the home with a loving parent. I absolutely don't want my tax dollars wasted on what amounts to a baby sitting service.
Why is cradle to adulthood (and beyond) care by the government always seem to be the goal of liberals?

2 likes, 17 dislikes
Posted by bslap on 08/07/2017 at 8:23 AM

Re: “Is the Strong Start Tucson Initiative a Good Idea?

Isn't this initiative a system where Vouchers are provided to send kids to Private School. Albeit that it is locally produced. But if the Public Tax Supported Voucher system starts with Preschool, how much more would it take for Vouchers to become the norm for All Students. Maybe the City should look at PreSchool supported by the existing Public School system?

14 likes, 2 dislikes
Posted by Charles Smith on 08/07/2017 at 7:37 AM

Re: “Is the Strong Start Tucson Initiative a Good Idea?

Link please, John, for your kindergarten study, and if possible point to the conclusions section? And a link and quote verifying that $140 million was spent collecting data for the Early Childhood Longitudinal Study? If you want me to trust, or even understand what you're talking about, you need to verify.

17 likes, 5 dislikes
Posted by David Safier on 08/07/2017 at 7:21 AM

Re: “Pleasantly Punjab

I live nearby but review doesn't sound like the restaurant we went to at that location. The restaurant is not very clean and the food obviously preprepared from a food service or Lee Lee's. the food is bland and not well prepared with inferior ingredients. The staff often seems completely oblivious to the customers.

They have the most yelp reviews disputed I have ever seen for a restaurant. The reviews where customers complain about being sick after eating there have mostly been removed. I know mine and my wife's were.

1 like, 0 dislikes
Posted by VerusX on 08/07/2017 at 6:41 AM

Re: “Is the Strong Start Tucson Initiative a Good Idea?

David,

The $140 million came directly from the Institute of Education Sciences as a public records request, the oversight entity for the ECLS.

Your adult impacts almost certainly came from the famous Perry Preschool project - a sample of only 64 students followed from preschool till adulthood.

By comparison, the ECLS was a random sample of 20,000 students randomly drawn from 2,000 different schools and randomly drawn right from within each classroom.

They found that all day kindergartners lost ground on prosocial, antisocial behavior and motivation. And, the damage appears to be permanent - they lost ground to half-day kindergartners every year after kindergarten all the way till the end of the study.

A similar but smaller longitudinal study of 600 students found the same outcomes for preschool.

Everyone talks about "fade out" but it is not fade out - it is damage - slightly higher cognitive gains in one year at the expense of permanently lowered attitudes.

It hasn't been understood to be damage because few studies are as comprehensive as ECLS and few have followed students as long.

As far as Perry Preschool project it should be understood as mythology, not research. If you assign a trail guide to 64 students and his life outcomes depend on their well being, they will do well. It has little or nothing to do with the trail they follow.

5 likes, 21 dislikes
Posted by jhuppent@hotmail.com on 08/06/2017 at 1:09 PM

Re: “Is the Strong Start Tucson Initiative a Good Idea?

John, I usually don't bother responding to you, but my God, what are you talking about? Your data, if it means anything, goes through 8th grade. I wrote about research on high school graduation, earning power, family stability and lack of negative confrontations with the law. It followed people years beyond high school graduation. And I wrote about two years of preschool for 3 and 4 year olds, not the difference between half day and all day K's effects on academic achievement. (Some studies on the effects of preschool say the reading and math gains level out by the 4th grade, but they see lifelong benefits which go beyond test scores).

If you wish, I'd love for you to link to the study or studies you're referring to. Please point to where it says $140 million was spent collecting the data.

31 likes, 13 dislikes
Posted by David Safier on 08/05/2017 at 12:27 PM

Re: “Is the Strong Start Tucson Initiative a Good Idea?

Katie, in the interest of presenting both sides of the argument accurately, I stated the anti-Strong Start concerns in a paragraph which said clearly that it was their argument, not mine. I don't think summarizing their views is putting out "misinformation." I did say, "Their concerns are genuine," because I believe they are, though, as I go on to say, they are minor compared to the value of the program. I then went on to address their concerns one by one. I also say in the introductory paragraphs and at the end that I am a supporter of Strong Start.

As we get closer to the election, both sides will likely become more visible and vocal. I think it's valuable to put both arguments side by side and see how they line up next to one another.

27 likes, 14 dislikes
Posted by David Safier on 08/05/2017 at 8:34 AM

Re: “Is the Strong Start Tucson Initiative a Good Idea?

Yet the vast majority of research agrees...

Not so fast. Yes, their are hundreds of studies waxing poetic about the benefits of preschool and kindergarten.

And, then there is the Early Childhood Longitudinal Study. A random sample of 20,000 children, the best tests ever designed to measure young child cognition, measurement of affective outcomes from every perspective, the student, the parent, the teacher. Measurement of motor skills. Recording every aspect of student's life so that all things can be held constant.

$140 million dollars spent just collecting the data.

Separation of data gathering from data analysis to prevent bias from corrupting the data collection.

Followed the students for 9 years, all the way through 8th grade.

Result: at the end of 8th grade, all-day kindergartners are behind half day kindergartners by .1 standard deviations - the equivalent of the entire 12th grade.

The ECLS is the Hubble telescope of education studies. You never hear about it because Education culture prefers its myths.

The ECLS data exactly parallels a similar longitudinal study done on preschool.

The National Reading Panel began their work by spending $10 million analyzing over 10,000 reading studies and ended up concluding that 96% of them weren't worth the paper that they were written on and the other 400 had weaknesses.

Why would early childhood research be any different?

8 likes, 26 dislikes
Posted by jhuppent@hotmail.com on 08/05/2017 at 7:00 AM

Re: “Arizona's Un-Credential. Is It the Beginning Of the End Of Teaching As a Profession?

The short answer is, "Yes."

16 likes, 3 dislikes
Posted by Huppenthal is still a public school hater on 08/05/2017 at 6:40 AM

Re: “Is the Strong Start Tucson Initiative a Good Idea?

Mr Safier, many of the concerns/questions you raised are easily answered on Strong Start Tucson's website... please don't keep spreading the idea that we "don't know" more about this initiative. Local nonprofits will bid to be the one to oversee it (that only happens after it's passed) and quality is clearly defined on the website as a 3,4 or 5 star rating from first things first's Quality First rating system. I posted on fb, too - just don't want more misinformation out there!

8 likes, 26 dislikes
Posted by Katie Paschall on 08/04/2017 at 9:30 PM

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