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Comment Archives: stories: News & Opinion: The Range: The Tucson Weekly's Daily Dispatch

Re: “Song of the Day: Billy Sedlmayr On Crazy Jimmy, and also Elton John's ‘Have Mercy on the Criminal’

Great review of a great song

www.yoursongscollectibles.com

3 likes, 0 dislikes
Posted by Komer Growl on 07/28/2017 at 1:48 PM

Re: “Meritocracy, System Justification and Mexican American Studies

Yesterday I read your thoughts on the MAS trial, then the comments. Today I read The Atlantic article regarding our belief that somehow we live in a meritocracy.
I zoomed back to post a link to The Atlantic piece, but you were quicker.
Here's to hoping your readers learn a few things from the study cited in The Atlantic.
And also, the MAS classes were taught in english, so how is that even relevant to anything?

10 likes, 4 dislikes
Posted by fnpmuller on 07/28/2017 at 1:22 PM

Re: “McCain Returns to Senate To Push Mystery GOP Healthcare Bill Forward

Mizzer Lou

That's for congress to decide. It's their job, what they are paid to do on behalf of their constituents (us)!

23 likes, 1 dislike
Posted by Rick Spanier on 07/28/2017 at 12:46 PM

Re: “Seth MacFarlane and His Peculiar Distaste For Tucson

There are other writers and I thought Seth MacFarlane hadn't done any writing for Family Guy since 2010, when he started moving on to other projects? Maybe one of the other writers hates it...

Posted by K4l4p4 on 07/28/2017 at 12:11 PM

Re: “McCain Returns to Senate To Push Mystery GOP Healthcare Bill Forward

Who and how will this ACA be paid for, or are you content to just add more debt?

1 like, 13 dislikes
Posted by Mizzer Lou on 07/28/2017 at 11:25 AM

Re: “McCain Returns to Senate To Push Mystery GOP Healthcare Bill Forward

The answer to anyone's guess is McCain showed tremendous courage in joining with Collins and Murkowski to destroy their party's idiotic crusade against the ACA. Seven years later and Bozo and the Insane Clown Posse have gone down in flames -never had a plan only a perpetual bitch session.

Bad week for Bozo with the sanctions bill passing nearly unanimously, his new communications director going off the rails, conservatives daring him to fire Sessions or Mueller, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs rebuking him for his brain fart directed at transgender soldiers and the Boy Scouts of America apologizing for his politicizing their Jamboree.

I thought we had seen how many clowns could fit in the circus car during the primaries, now make room for hundreds more as the Republicans self-destroy. (And yes, I agree the Democrats are just as bad, just not as dangerous as the party controlling the executive, legislative and judicial branches).

27 likes, 0 dislikes
Posted by Rick Spanier on 07/28/2017 at 10:20 AM

Re: “In The Flesh: Jimmy Carr and the Awkward Moments Create a Raucous Musical Celebration Aboard Sun Link

i considered going but knew it would be too full. still sounded awesome though

1 like, 1 dislike
Posted by Palisades on 07/27/2017 at 6:11 PM

Re: “A Few Thoughts On the Mexican American Studies Trial

Hey, let's give John Hupp some credit. At least this time he has the huevos to post comments under his real name. I'd say that's progress. He went from middle school level behavior almost to adult behavior. KUDOS John!!!

27 likes, 5 dislikes
Posted by Fred Barlam on 07/27/2017 at 2:17 PM

Re: “Jogger Plans Half-Day Run To Support No More Deaths

He is not a hypocrite. Where does he say he supports anything about israel?

22 likes, 2 dislikes
Posted by Palisades on 07/27/2017 at 2:05 PM

Re: “Jogger Plans Half-Day Run To Support No More Deaths

Added to that is fact that many of these illegal entrants have invested large sums of money to be brought here.

It went almost totally unreported but Canada has found itself in a major cash crunch partly because of extremely high levels of personal debt, but their banks have had their financial strength downgraded by Moody's.

So this is what consumers do that don't have to buy health insurance, or are they over taxed?

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2017/05/11/moodys-big-six-banks-downgrade_n_16556848.html

2 likes, 22 dislikes
Posted by Chilly Con Carne on 07/27/2017 at 2:02 PM

Re: “Jogger Plans Half-Day Run To Support No More Deaths

I am tired of people waving the bloody shirt of the holocaust at the United States in an effort to undermine U.S. sovereignty and persuade the United States that we are obligated to take every immigrant on Earth who would like to live here. We aren't. No one is rounding up people from El Salvador or Oaxaca and putting them into death camps. These people immigrate for lifestyle, not survival. And this tactic seems hypocritcal to me when it comes from Jewish people, in view of the fact that Israel maintains draconian border security measures and strict immigration controls in order to prevent itself from becoming non-Jewish. And I've got no problem with that. I support Jews in their desire for a secure homeland. But I expect them to return the courtesy.

2 likes, 22 dislikes
Posted by Nathan K on 07/27/2017 at 1:06 PM

Re: “A Few Thoughts On the Mexican American Studies Trial

Response

Evidence and logic. The most important public policy number in the universe is the maximum possible speed of improvement for students from poverty.

If as you imply, we are there, then our current system is morally defensible and we should all protect it dearly. However, even a casual glance at the data reveals that we are nowhere close to living up to these students potential.

That makes our existing education system horribly racist - just a fact, just a purely logical conclusion.

And, its getting worse, not better. The productivity of the American k-12 education system has fallen 15% since the year 2000, 5% just since 2011.

3 likes, 21 dislikes
Posted by jhuppent@hotmail.com on 07/27/2017 at 12:56 PM

Re: “Jogger Plans Half-Day Run To Support No More Deaths

Israel does not represent the jewish people as a whole

22 likes, 2 dislikes
Posted by Palisades on 07/27/2017 at 12:34 PM

Re: “A Few Thoughts On the Mexican American Studies Trial

David, thanks for the thoughtful reply.

I disagree with your foundational premise. A white child born in 2003 (i.e., a High School freshman today) has not been brought up in an educational system (or a society) that sustains white supremacy, or that even permits any positive expression of white identity. Quite the opposite.

But we don't have to agree on this.

My hypothetical AAS program would not be based on the milquetoast, IMPLICITLY pro-white narrative present in U.S. education prior to, say, the 1990s. It would be EXPLICITLY pro-white. One of its goals would be to encourage the formation of a positive white identity among its students.

And my point is just that we would never permit such a thing, even if it managed to create significantly improved educational outcomes among poor and otherwise disadvantaged white students. One of the reasons we would never permit it is because is because encouraging ethnic chauvinism is bad for social cohesion.

4 likes, 20 dislikes
Posted by Nathan K on 07/27/2017 at 11:35 AM

Re: “A Few Thoughts On the Mexican American Studies Trial

Nathan K, you've posed an interesting thought experiment. One problem with it is, your laboratory in the classroom is isolated from the rest of society. It doesn't take into account that this country's culture overwhelmingly presents the world from a white perspective. A "White Studies" program which overstated the white dominance argument would be reinforcing what people have heard in this country since its inception. We've made some advances toward multiculturalism in recent years, but they're small, early steps which don't nearly counterbalance the Eurocentric narrative. "White studies" -- in other words, the traditional curriculum, possibly exaggerated from what it is today -- would be compounding the historical and cultural misconceptions which permeate our society.

So let's pose your thought experiment again, adding a new wrinkle. If whites were the oppressed minority in this country and people of color were the winners who wrote the histories and dominated the national narrative, if society taught whites that they were inferior, that they deserved their place at the bottom of the socioeconomic heap, would it make sense to have a "White studies" program, even if it sometimes went overboard and overstated the value and importance of white contributions to society and dwelled on the injustices visited on white students, their parents and their ancestors? Would it be a needed counterbalance to the nationwide oppression of whites -- in this version of your thought experiment -- an attempt to correct the record and turn white children's sense of inferiority into a feeling of empowerment?

26 likes, 7 dislikes
Posted by David Safier on 07/27/2017 at 11:09 AM

Re: “Jogger Plans Half-Day Run To Support No More Deaths

"During World War II, some of Schuster's Jewish great aunts and uncles died in Auschwitz. He said he sees parallel treatment of immigrants today."

Reminder - Israel has a massive wall to keep out illegal immigrants, and has accepted no Muslim war refugees for permanent resettlement.

2 likes, 22 dislikes
Posted by Nathan K on 07/27/2017 at 10:57 AM

Re: “A Few Thoughts On the Mexican American Studies Trial

"The picture you paint of educational whiteness is exactly how our educational system used to be, before programs like MAS"

No not really. Previously, our educational system was implicitly pro-white. We were an 85-90% white country, critical theory was still in its incubation stage, so you wouldn't expect a counter-narrative, and there wasn't one. Now, there are all manner of counter-narratives being generated by the critical theorists who dominate the education Academy, and these narratives can be sustained because we are now a country that is 62% white and dropping (and a city that is 50% white, and dropping).

My question is, suppose we could increase the educational outcomes of poor, underperforming white students by putting them in a system that was more EXPLICITLY pro-white than say, the curriculum taught in U.S. schools in the 1980s - a curriculum that purposefully excluded these counter-narratives. Should we do it? Is there any level of increased outcomes that would justify such a system?

3 likes, 21 dislikes
Posted by Nathan K on 07/27/2017 at 10:02 AM

Re: “A Few Thoughts On the Mexican American Studies Trial

Well, there ya go. The last refuge of a racist is to call people who challenge them on it "racist."

Give it a break, Dupenthal. First rule when you're in a hole--stop digging.

Re: Nathan K's "logic" problems, they are utterly illogical. The picture you paint of educational whiteness is exactly how our educational system used to be, before programs like MAS--and more importantly, teachers who challenged the institutional racism of the educational system--came along.

No one was taught that the U.S. stole half of Mexico's territory in a bald-faced war of aggression. No one was taught that Native Americans were pushed off their land and slaughtered wholesale in a bald-faced war of genocide. No one was taught that racism was still a rife and destructive force in our supposedly democratic institutions, and remains so TO THIS DAY--criminal justice, voting rights, education, you name it.

Facts like these are demonstrable and indisputable, yet children in public schools were taught a very different reality that socialized them to be part of the problem when they grew up, rather than part of the solution. Suppressing and discriminating against identities is what creates social strife. Claiming and celebrating identities only creates strife for people who feel threatened by those identities and would prefer to mask or erase them with mandatory whiteness.

THAT is why programs like MAS are absolutely necessary--because without them, racist apologists like you and Dupenthal would continue to sweep these realities under the rug.

34 likes, 5 dislikes
Posted by skinnyman on 07/27/2017 at 9:44 AM

Re: “A Few Thoughts On the Mexican American Studies Trial

Addendum

Does 95 round to a hundred? Does 3.8 years of progress round to 4 years? I'll stick with 4 students but for all practical purposes, its five.

The students alternate, doing fluency problems at their highest possible level one day and math comprehension (word problems) the next at their highest possible level the next day.

Try sticking students on "Number Munchers" for 40 minutes a day. That would fall apart in less than a month. My students averaged 36 minutes a day of math work for an entire year. A recent research study showed that students at the tenth percentile averaged only two minutes of reading a day. Its hard to believe that they would have done much more math work.

I am glad that you paid such close attention, even if you are a critic.

Thanks.

2 likes, 22 dislikes
Posted by jhuppent@hotmail.com on 07/27/2017 at 9:20 AM

Re: “A Few Thoughts On the Mexican American Studies Trial

Response

Ethnic studies students were not getting statistically different results on academic gains. There were t tests run. The students were gaining about 9 points. That's not enough to reduce the achievement gap. That's not excellent results. They had a very slightly higher graduation rates than the "control" group but so did every other subject and class because the numerator for the graduation rate of the "control" group was defined at a different point in time that the numerator for the graduation rate of MAS students.

What I am doing with my studies is establishing how fast students of color and of poverty can improve academically without any help from the home. If the typical Latino student can move 60 SAT points per year, 100 AZmerit points per year, that has tremendous significance. That's four times as fast as the typical student is doing now.

That means that the system is holding these kids down, that the system is racist.

That was Benjamin Franklin's breakthrough, as he studied African American students in school. He came to the conclusion that these kids were every bit as capable as white kids and that it was the institution of slavery that was holding them down. That was a huge breakthrough because not even abolitionists held that view.

We have a similar situation now. Liberals don't believe that Hispanics and Blacks have the ability to thrive and that we just have to accept their substandard academic outcomes.

In words they would never admit, they are racist to the core.

4 likes, 32 dislikes
Posted by jhuppent@hotmail.com on 07/27/2017 at 9:09 AM

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