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Re: “Statewide Voucher Initiatives Has Been Voted Down Everywhere, Every Time

Should all children receive an equal amount of tax funded support for their educations, or should some receive tens of thousands of dollars of support while others receive none?

When a private institution relieves the state of the burden of educating a child at the state's expense, should the state pay for the provision of those services? When private entities provide citizens other services the state usually provides, they are paid to do so.

Why would a tax increase be needed, Frances? You apply your per pupil funding in one institution or another. It's a zero sum game.

The fact is that without vouchers equalizing the per-pupil funding and remedying a situation in which there has been unfair economic discrimination against educational institutions providing excellent services to constituents and thereby contributing more to the common good than many public educational institutions do, what we have going on is the state creating an economic incentive for parents to enroll their children in schools that produce a less educated citizenry. If the government creates incentives, it should be incentivizing behaviors that produce better outcomes, not worse ones, cf. Cass Sunstein on policy "nudges."

1 like, 0 dislikes
Posted by Ask more honest questions & provide better answers. on 04/25/2017 at 6:20 AM

Re: “Statewide Voucher Initiatives Has Been Voted Down Everywhere, Every Time

There should be two simple questions. The Republican majority is always adding more and more "transparency" requirements to school district bond and override elections. The voters should have a chance at a transparent question, without money laundering "empowering" wording nonsense. "Should the State of Arizona provide taxpayer money to subsidize private religious schools?" Period. The next question should be,"Do you support a dedicated tax increase to pay for these subsidies?" Yes or No. Of course they do not have the courage nor their corporate backers the confidence this would ever pass, thus a bamboozled Supreme Court bought the money laundering nonsense. The writer could add Michigan to the list, as the DeVos bunch put a constitutional amendment on the ballot to repeal the prohibition on public money for religious schools. It also lost bigly.

2 likes, 2 dislikes
Posted by Frances Perkins on 04/24/2017 at 11:06 PM

Re: “Good, Available Child Care Benefits Society

Did the mothers in the study want to turn their children over to daycare 40 or more hours a week, or would they have preferred to have a family income sufficient to enable one parent to provide pre-school and after-school care while the other parent worked full time? Why doesn't the political party that is supposed to defend the interests of working families defend the right to wages for full time work that can actually support a family properly?

Did the typically insufficiently educated and underpaid child care workers want to work for low wages taking care of other women's children in a group setting, or would they, if they had had the opportunity, have preferred a different way of life -- either a better paying job with better working conditions and benefits or the opportunity to take care of their own children, not someone else's? You forgot to mention what an economic ghetto paid child care workers live in. Try making it a genuine profession and then come talk to us about how much it will benefit society for us to (under)pay an (under)educated child care work force to raise the next generation of children.

4 likes, 5 dislikes
Posted by Come talk to us when "day care" is no longer a ghetto. on 04/24/2017 at 8:08 PM

Re: “Trouble in Republican City Over Voucher Expansion?

Yes, "Republicans Killed the American Dream," that's the party line, a.k.a. the fairy tale the Democratic Party likes to tell over and over and over again to people gullible enough to believe it. It bears about as much resemblance to reality as the party line / bedtime story told on the other side of the political divide, that the free market and its deus ex machina Invisible Hand will magically produce an education system that meets the needs of everyone if we just make sure to destroy all regulatory oversight.

You can see what kind of monsters fantasy-loving constituents on both sides of the political divide are capable of producing: in some circumstances following the Democratic Party line will produce TUSD, a bloated, deeply dysfunctional, inequitable disaster of a public school district, and in a different set of circumstances following the Republican Party line will produce Basis, a Hunger Games-style survival-of-the-fittest public charter chain that runs a program of mindless cramming for machine graded, corporate produced AP exams. Both have massive attrition rates, but for different reasons and through different means.

At the same time, excellent private schools with decades-long distinguished traditions of sound and humane education teeter in the brink of bankruptcy because of the damage the recession and the ever-escalating costs of higher ed have done to Southern Arizona's residents' ability to afford the luxury of a good K-12 education for their kids. And the uproar from the Democrats whose networks feed on public districts and the Republicans whose networks feed on public charters is defeaning. They can't agree on anything else, but they can certainly agree that allowing citizens to apply the tax dollars the state has available to educate their children in an institution that actually does EDUCATE them, rather than abusing them or wasting their time, is the most horrific thing that could ever happen in this nation.

That, unfortunately, is where our local public discourse on "education" seems to be. What further evidence do we need that the project of producing an educated citizenry through public institutions has failed?

2 likes, 6 dislikes
Posted by Perhaps public funds should be used to EDUCATE students? on 04/24/2017 at 7:35 PM

Re: “The Skinny

Republicans always trash big government when the Democrats are in power. But wait. the government is the largest under the Republicans, larger debt too. Republicans are great at switching blame to anyone others then themselves. It like Trump blaming Obama for everything when he is President and has the power. But I understand him, being mentally ill as experts are now saying outloud.

4 likes, 0 dislikes
Posted by preveoff on 04/24/2017 at 4:49 PM

Re: “Money and Challengers, Oh My

Sally ability to get things done, you mean like Trump has. Revoking all the life saving laws for EPA, you mean revoking AHC She is just another TRASH Republican who needs to be defeated. What has she actually done to HELP AZ citizens? NAME ONE.

6 likes, 0 dislikes
Posted by voiceoffreedom on 04/24/2017 at 4:43 PM

Re: “Trouble in Republican City Over Voucher Expansion?

You might want to look at education pensions and modify your thinking.

1 like, 8 dislikes
Posted by Democrats Taxed The American Dream Out Of Existence on 04/24/2017 at 4:38 PM

Re: “Trouble in Republican City Over Voucher Expansion?

The first mission of Republicans was to cut public education funding to a level (last in then nation) where most districts would struggle to retain quality educators. This in turn would make it incredibly difficult for public schools to succeed. Second, drastically cut their capital budget so schools would fall in disrepair in areas where home owners couldn't afford to bond to maintain or expand their schools. Third, point to the failing schools you created as an excuse to pass school vouchers as an alternative to public schools.

Reality, Republicans long ago became the party of the rich whose only goal was to make life even easier on the rich as the expense of the middle and lower classes. ESAs are simply an education subsidy for a group of people who do not need it and it once again comes at the expense of the middle and lower class. Republicans like the Koch brothers are doing everything they can to squash the American Dream and they are winning at the expense of our nation.

Education has been the way up and out of poverty since the inception of our nation. Now they want to take that away.

9 likes, 3 dislikes
Posted by Republicans killed the American Dream on 04/24/2017 at 1:58 PM

Re: “Statewide Voucher Initiatives Has Been Voted Down Everywhere, Every Time

If that were true they would be building ovens instead of walls. Don't look now but France has tired of the atrocities of open border politicians. This could be the end of the old political parties. The first ones to frame the issues that appeal to thinking voters will control the majority by vote.

1 like, 7 dislikes
Posted by Workin it on 04/24/2017 at 11:50 AM

Re: “Trouble in Republican City Over Voucher Expansion?

I was thinking @ this the other day. What really made America the greatest nation in history?

FREE PUBLIC EDUCATION FOR ALL.

No ifs, ands, or buts. It's that simple to me. A literate+numerate populace is the single greatest advance in the history of our species. Forget fire.

12 likes, 3 dislikes
Posted by desertrat on 04/24/2017 at 11:39 AM

Re: “Zona Politics Tonight: Councilman Steve Kozachik and Metro Chamber Prez Mike Varney

This conservative says no. It does not make sense. By the way what was our road money wasted on? Bigger salaries and bigger pensions?

2 likes, 4 dislikes
Posted by Common Sense Solutions Please on 04/24/2017 at 11:37 AM

Re: “Zona Politics Tonight: Councilman Steve Kozachik and Metro Chamber Prez Mike Varney

So we're going to fix our roads on the backs of the working class with sales taxes already near the highest in the country? We're going to buy a bunch of new firetrucks when we could pay Tucson citizens to rebuild the engines and whatever else they need in the ones we have instead of throwing them away? This progressive says NO!!!

8 likes, 0 dislikes
Posted by desertrat on 04/24/2017 at 10:03 AM

Re: “Statewide Voucher Initiatives Has Been Voted Down Everywhere, Every Time

This is another perfect example of Republicans using Public Money paying the cost and Private Gain reaping the rewards. I've been practicing my Sieg Heil! and Straight arm salute for whats to come.

9 likes, 2 dislikes
Posted by Beneal Good on 04/24/2017 at 8:28 AM

Re: “Statewide Voucher Initiatives Has Been Voted Down Everywhere, Every Time

Let's not be too certain about what voters will never go for. We thought they would never go for Trump, either. You will never go wrong underestimating the intelligence of an American voter.

7 likes, 2 dislikes
Posted by raythewatchman on 04/24/2017 at 7:43 AM

Re: “Zona Politics Tonight: Councilman Steve Kozachik and Metro Chamber Prez Mike Varney

No on the sales tax, you idiots already burn through money like its your own, not to mention the millions you will loose from the state from your moronic anti gun stance. Stupid does as stupid is and as for the vouchers, I hoped it spells the end of TUSD as an actual school districts. Like the city it also is run by morons.

2 likes, 8 dislikes
Posted by Azpaul on 04/24/2017 at 6:48 AM

Re: “Statewide Voucher Initiatives Has Been Voted Down Everywhere, Every Time

Wow, the majority is willing to abuse the minority. What a prescient observation.

Let's review the history. District education education is not public education. 99% of the public is excluded from district schools.

Bricks and teachers aren't public. Children are the public. Arizona is the only state with a public education system with every school in the state open ro the public.

In almost every other state, it is a crime to allow the public to attend a district school or to allow them to get their public education at a Christiam school.

Here you are defending a bigoted, racist institution to the bitter end.

4 likes, 8 dislikes
Posted by jhuppent@hotmail.com on 04/24/2017 at 6:04 AM

Re: “The Pima County Fair is Back and You Don't Want to Miss It

DO NOT REPEAT, DO NOT GO TO THE PIMA COUNTY FAIR. We have been stuck in line that is still not moving in a half empty parking lot just trying to leave for an hour now. You probably will experience the same. The restrooms are disgusting people crapping in the urinals and it is a lets get drunk fest here.

1 like, 7 dislikes
Posted by Azpaul on 04/22/2017 at 11:37 PM

Re: “Trouble in Republican City Over Voucher Expansion?

Turf reactions are everywhere. Only 50% of Republicans support school choice on polling data. But, when they go into the voting booth, they don't trust democrats to make the right decisions.

If your brain is wired to believe that the school is public, that these bricks, these teachers are public, then you have that reaction.

The truth is that the parents and the children are the public and now, close to 100% of the schools in Arizona are open to the public while the public in other states finds 99% of the schools closed to them.

We in Arizona now have a public school system, unlike almost every other state which have district school systems.

7 likes, 19 dislikes
Posted by jhuppent@hotmail.com on 04/22/2017 at 6:57 PM

Re: “Trouble in Republican City Over Voucher Expansion?

What a surprise. Southern Arizona Democrats "dislike" the hard truth about their public policy preferences and their favored public institutions.

Perhaps they should recognize that if they want people to support their policy preferences and public institutions, they need to do a better job of managing them and communicating honestly with the public about them.

Loudly applauding dysfunction, disparaging legitimate progressive policy goals like integration, and engaging in a systematic program of trying to block the truth about what's actually going on in these institutions from getting to the electorate is not, in the long run, a winning approach. (Or, as Jo Holt once wisely said, "Lying is not a sustainable strategy.") All it will achieve is disenchantment and disengagement among those paying enough attention to see the difference between dishonest propaganda and the realities in the lives of constituents. When you observe entrenched resistance to competent management and honest communication, what else can you conclude but that the constituents being mistreated and underserved need to be given a way to leave?

Yes, I know. You disagree. Many of you think the only thing to do is lie to the public and engage in a no-holds-barred, last ditch street-fight with your political opponents to try to "save" the public district system. You conveniently ignore the fact that you yourselves and your entire filthy network have, over the course of the last few decades, conspired to turn large portions of this system into something impossible to reform, and thus, not worth saving.

Job well done. Just make sure you assign the blame where it actually belongs. Hint: a good, hard look in the mirror is what's called for.

6 likes, 23 dislikes
Posted by "Lying is not a sustainable strategy." on 04/22/2017 at 6:24 PM

Re: “Just Getting Started

Great article. Keep up the good work!!!

Posted by Mariann Bournstein Flaschen on 04/22/2017 at 1:17 PM

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