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Comment Archives: stories: News & Opinion: The Range: The Tucson Weekly's Daily Dispatch: Last 30 Days

Re: “Statewide Voucher Initiatives Has Been Voted Down Everywhere, Every Time

Rancho Snob, depending on who is drafting the polling question, the issue is framed to give the desired outcome. Mine was not an attempted nice try. It serviced the target.

8 likes, 18 dislikes
Posted by Allen S on 04/21/2017 at 2:19 PM

Re: “Statewide Voucher Initiatives Has Been Voted Down Everywhere, Every Time

NOT A RANCHO SNOB, you should have kept reading:

"That tells you that a single question on the concept of vouchers does not tell the whole story, said State Board of Education President Michael Kirst, who wrote analyses for both voucher initiatives. 'Support eroded for vouchers the more that voters learned about the details and the implications,' he said. He said to accurately measure public opinion, there should be several questions, such as: 'Would you support a voucher program if it funded students already in private school? Would you support it if it only went to low-income children? Or paid for only a portion of the tuition?''

So in other words, contra Safier, the way the question is framed does matter. Support changes significantly as the wording changes and the details of the proposal that goes to the electorate change.

Also of interest in the same article: "African Americans, who elsewhere in the poll express the least satisfaction with public schools, are the most supportive, with 73 percent favoring vouchers, followed by Latinos, with 69 percent favoring vouchers, Asians with 56 percent and whites with 51 percent."

That would seem to suggest that the comment above which stated that support for vouchers is related to how well the public schools are meeting the needs of their constituents is correct. Minority populations that have traditionally been under-served in public schools support vouchers at higher rates than whites and Asians do. Schools serving high-SES neighborhoods that have majority white / Asian populations generally have higher functioning public schools.

People don't generally leave a neighborhood school that is convenient and comes with free transportation for trivial reasons. If they want to leave, let them leave, and let them apply the money that the state saves when they exit that school in a school that better meets their child's needs.

8 likes, 21 dislikes
Posted by Always read to the end, then draw conclusions. on 04/21/2017 at 12:35 PM

Re: “Statewide Voucher Initiatives Has Been Voted Down Everywhere, Every Time

allen s, you should have kept reading:

PPICs 13th annual K-12 survey would appear at odds with California voters strong past opposition to vouchers. Twice before, in 1993 and 2000, voters rejected voucher initiatives, with 70 percent voting against them each time. However, in 1998, two years before the last vote and the last time that PPIC polled Californians on the issue, 58 percent of adults favored vouchers while 36 percent opposed them.

That means that answering a poll is different than actually VOTING for something.

Nice try.

23 likes, 8 dislikes
Posted by Not a Rancho Snob on 04/21/2017 at 12:17 PM

Re: “Statewide Voucher Initiatives Has Been Voted Down Everywhere, Every Time

Statewide vouchers will HELP the public schools identify their problems, and deal with them. More tax dollars going to them only means much more of the same.

7 likes, 25 dislikes
Posted by Eleanor P (Cat lady) on 04/21/2017 at 12:07 PM

Re: “Statewide Voucher Initiatives Has Been Voted Down Everywhere, Every Time

Ever consider that the willingness of the electorate to support vouchers may vary in inverse relation to the functionality of the public school system in a given state, i.e. where there are low functioning public schools, there will be high support for vouchers; where there are high functioning public schools, there will be low support for vouchers?

Coming from a blue state that had high functioning public schools, my initial stance was anti-voucher. After several years of observing what is going on in TUSD's schools and on its Board and with its administration, I changed my position. Now I do support vouchers. But if you refuse to be honest about the fact that the ship is sinking, David, which you have consistently done for the four years that I have taken the trouble to read your misleading and deeply depressing "commentary," I guess you think you should get a "pass" on having to acknowledge that lifeboats are necessary to save as many lives / educations as possible from a school system that has descended to this now-probably-irreversible level of dysfunction.

You may hold the opinion that more children's futures should be sacrificed to the false God of WHAT PUBLIC SCHOOLS SHOULD BE, BUT IN ARIZONA ARE NOT AND NEVER WILL BE. Many of us -- more every day as the dysfunction of TUSD becomes ever more conspicuous to the broader community -- disagree with you.

8 likes, 22 dislikes
Posted by Whose needs matter, STUDENTS' or THE PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM'S? on 04/21/2017 at 10:35 AM

Re: “Statewide Voucher Initiatives Has Been Voted Down Everywhere, Every Time

"The numbers might move a bit if the questions on the two polls were phrased in a more voucher-friendly way, but not by enough to change the overall result."

Pure assertion. The questions in the polls you cite were asked in extremely biased, prejudicial ways, and there is absolutely no evidence to back up your claim that if the questions had been phrased differently, the results would not have been different.

What if the question were posed this way:
"Do all children with similar needs deserve to have exactly the same amount of tax funded support for their educations, or should it be legal for the state to discriminate economically against parents who are responsible enough to take the time and trouble to remove their children from malfunctioning / low performing neighborhood schools and to transport them at their own expense to schools that are able to meet their children's academic needs i.e. that enable their children to perform at the academic level that matches their ability level?"

9 likes, 21 dislikes
Posted by How the poll questions are phrased DOES make a difference. on 04/21/2017 at 10:32 AM

Re: “Diane Douglas Got Trumped. And DeVosed. And Maybe Duceyed. And It's a Damn Shame.

Impeachment on what grounds, that you are a sore loser? Get back to helping Make America Great Again.

Hate won't Trump Trump.

1 like, 11 dislikes
Posted by There Are Liars And Then There Are Liars on 04/21/2017 at 10:21 AM

Re: “Statewide Voucher Initiatives Has Been Voted Down Everywhere, Every Time

Updated 48 hours ago.

https://edsource.org/2017/majority-of-californians-polled-favor-school-vouchers/580456

I wonder just how much of what you believe just simply isn't true?

10 likes, 20 dislikes
Posted by Allen S on 04/21/2017 at 10:19 AM

Re: “Diane Douglas Got Trumped. And DeVosed. And Maybe Duceyed. And It's a Damn Shame.

Don't you wonder why so many of Trump campaign advisors/contributors were meeting with Russian agents? Where are the people of America not calling for his impeachment? Do we actually have Democracy under the Republicans?

11 likes, 1 dislike
Posted by freedomspeaks on 04/21/2017 at 9:23 AM

Re: “Diane Douglas Got Trumped. And DeVosed. And Maybe Duceyed. And It's a Damn Shame.

DeVos brother met with the Russians on a secluded just prior to Trump taking his oath of office. Both are billionaires from MI, Brother is now living in another country. He left the USA

11 likes, 1 dislike
Posted by voiceoffreedom on 04/21/2017 at 9:20 AM

Re: “Statewide Voucher Initiatives Has Been Voted Down Everywhere, Every Time

The Republicans want all the power so they try to pass any bills to take away the rights of the people and communities. It's called DICTATORSHIP

26 likes, 10 dislikes
Posted by votesmartamerica on 04/21/2017 at 9:16 AM

Re: “The Pima County Fair is Back and You Don't Want to Miss It

SCAMMER BUSTED !!!!!!!!!!!

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10212266112265578&set=pcb.10212266144706389&type=3&theater

1 like, 0 dislikes
Posted by Greg Attaway on 04/21/2017 at 4:53 AM

Re: “RIP, Author and Activist Kathryn Ferguson

Beloved Kathryn; the world is a lesser place without you. You are free to dance on the mountain tops and the heavens are rejoicing to have the beauty of you among it's stars. You were my role model, hero and friend. I will so miss those great conversations with your incredible mind and shining soul. You were a force for love and good, with compassion for all you encountered. You could never have been here long enough for me, but I am so honored that we walked some of this journey together. Thank you, Kathryn, my friend. Journey on and fly free. With so much love, Trudy Yaklich

Posted by Trudy Yaklich on 04/20/2017 at 9:25 PM

Re: “Libraries Trump Hate

Oh, I forgot to mention the importance that every fascist dictator rules with and utilizes fear.

15 likes, 3 dislikes
Posted by ronko on 04/20/2017 at 10:23 AM

Re: “The Pima County Fair is Back and You Don't Want to Miss It

Please don't forget the Old Pueblo Hall exhibits. These are handmade crafts and arts by real people and so totally inspiring. Many schools also provide curricular based exhibits worth seeing, and then there are the wonderful 4-H things as well. The good side of the community is there. So many kids say they never knew that was out there.

8 likes, 0 dislikes
Posted by gcb1 on 04/20/2017 at 9:40 AM

Re: “Dare to Say, 'Tax the Rich'

uh... equal tax rate for everyone. The richer they are the more they spend they pay taxes. End of story

15 likes, 2 dislikes
Posted by Equalty on 04/20/2017 at 8:46 AM

Re: “Libraries Trump Hate

Rule number one for Fascists: keep the populace ignorant, control the newspapers, impoverish public schools and libraries.

23 likes, 4 dislikes
Posted by ronko on 04/20/2017 at 8:43 AM

Re: “Libraries Trump Hate

Cutting libraries is a little like cutting Meals on Wheels--both programs are life-savers, not only for the nutrients they provide but for the community they engender as well. We have the money to fund all the war toys we want, so that OUR playground bully can exchange threats with other playground bullies on a world stage, but no money for libraries and Meals on Wheels. We can fund a passel of Tomahawks and "the mother of all bombs" to destroy other countries, but can't fund the social infrastructure of our own. And then locally we are supposed to be happy to have Raytheon, who makes the war toys, donate to our pathetically underfunded public schools. Don't get me wrong, as a public school advocate, I AM happy that they participate. I'm just sorry that our (and their) economic health depends on the destruction of resources worldwide. I just wish that their business contributed to REAL world security, instead of just their donations.

29 likes, 1 dislike
Posted by Betts Putnam-Hidalgo on 04/20/2017 at 7:56 AM

Re: “Dare to Say, 'Tax the Rich'

Hebra Dolt:

It's medication time! Quit posting and chat with your buddy JHuppent while the two of you wait in line for your methadone. The rest of us can take a breather and we are very appreciative of that.

16 likes, 8 dislikes
Posted by So Tired, Tired of People, Tired of People Who Don't Know Shit on 04/20/2017 at 7:45 AM

Re: “Libraries Trump Hate

When I was young, I practically lived in the Woods branch library during the long, hot, boring summers here. Not to be too melodramatic, but I remain convinced to this day, that going on adventures in books in an air conditioned place surrounded by caring adults and fellow bookworms, saved my life. A few of my friends chose alternate adventures outside in the real world and are still paying for it today.
Funding cuts to libraries, the arts, and health care and research are a miniscule amount in the overall budget, but have a devastatingly huge impact in the lives of ordinary citizans, the ones repubs clearly care nothing about. But the cuts help keep the rabble uneducated and sick, two barriers to knowing what's truly going on and doing something about it. These proposed cuts are not only ill advised and mean, but a means to the end of their bigger picture goal, and must be stoped. Why people continue to cut off their noses to spite their faces is truly beyond me.

32 likes, 0 dislikes
Posted by Old_Crow on 04/20/2017 at 7:08 AM

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