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Re: “The New, New Jim Crow

"Tired of self congratulation...etc. etc. etc." some of us DO show up at TUSD Board meetings, and have been for a long time. I don't buy arguments that seek to undo the separation of church and state, and I never have. I don't think tax money in a country that constitutionally IS supposed to separate those things should go for religious instruction. Period. Not Catholic, not Muslim, not Protestant, not any of it. Such draining of tax monies is among the things that have caused the public schools to decline. Recall that I said SOME. Mismanagement at TUSD is PART of the story, and it happens to be the part that we can work on locally, so its important. But its not ALL of the story, no matter how articulate the argument against the district is. AND it doesn't hold for all public school districts. Your "stretching" of the concept of freedom of religion is befitting the owners of Hobby Lobby and the cake maker who swears that to make a cake for a same sex wedding doesn't allow him his freedom of religion (oh, or speech). I don't buy it there, and I won't buy it here. As happens with other rights held dear by the reigning powers in the country, the right to religion (which is really a misnomer, because the only one that counts is the right to Christianity, of course) is beginning to trample all over other rights. Here, you would have it trample over the rights to public education as they are having it trample over women's rights to make decisions about their/our bodies. Its not even a slippery slope, its a damned cliff.

16 likes, 10 dislikes
Posted by Betts Putnam-Hidalgo on 12/06/2017 at 10:35 PM

Re: “The New, New Jim Crow

The second link in the above post should be:

http://tucson.com/news/local/education/discipline-problems-at-secrist-trigger-special-tusd-task-force/article_2c7cfee0-2dec-5e6c-8298-743298b3abf2.html

15 likes, 15 dislikes
Posted by Correction to second link above on 12/06/2017 at 9:51 PM

Re: “The New, New Jim Crow

What is happening right outside the "very safe little neighborhoods" surrounding TUSD enclave schools like Sam Hughes, Fruchthendler, and Sabino is this:

http://tucson.com/news/local/tusd-pours-resources-into-east-side-school-in-effort-to/article_d3d0b851-48ac-5b35-8de9-1d7d3e0c6776.html

and this:

http://tucson.com/news/local/tusd-pours-resources-into-east-side-school-in-effort-to/article_d3d0b851-48ac-5b35-8de9-1d7d3e0c6776.html

and this:

http://tucson.com/news/local/education/six-tucson-unified-schools-to-lose-their-magnet-status/article_d19f0d4b-8043-5ae3-8acf-0abef0651fea.html

and this:

http://tucson.com/news/local/of-tusd-playgrounds-are-unsafe-audit-finds/article_0ec0e889-2187-5224-b25c-2348c914df1a.html

The bigots are those who want to lock poor minority students into low functioning, dangerous schools and insist that the only place public funds can be applied to educate these populations is in schools like Booth-Fickett, Secrist, and Utterback. Southern Arizona Democrats need to wake up and smell the stench of their own hypocrisy and their own willingness to sacrifice other people's children on the altar of their beautiful theories of PUBLIC EDUCATION, theories that have NOTHING to do with what is happening to real students in real schools in Tucson. There are open seats in a number of excellent private schools, all non-profit, both secular and church affiliated, that would serve students much better than TUSD's mismanaged, dangerous institutions serve the students who have the misfortune to be locked into them. And the only barriers to students taking those seats is Democratic party policy and the SOS campaign. Congrats, Southern Arizona Dems. What great, big-hearted humanitarians you all are.

Perhaps if you all started showing up at TUSD Board meetings en masse and actually advocating for better management of the district (difficult, unpleasant, exhausting, frustrating work that it is) the district might be salvageable. But as long as you continue to sit on your asses in the comfort of your homes and pontificate and theorize, congratulating yourselves on what great souls you are while a district serving forty-something thousand ROTS, your proposed policy solutions and your Betsy De Vos and New, New Jim Crow distractions from what is going on locally will not be acceptable.

18 likes, 19 dislikes
Posted by Tired of the self-congratulation & hypocrisy on 12/06/2017 at 8:36 PM

Re: “The New, New Jim Crow

Thank you for your insights and the good fight for equality and fair treatment of all humankind. And most of all for your continuing patience with those who refuse to see their own bigotry and the narrowness of their own experiences as a gauge of what is happening right outside their own very safe little neighborhoods.

12 likes, 20 dislikes
Posted by Shirley Willis on 12/06/2017 at 7:54 PM

Re: “Ed Sec Betsy DeVos on School Choice, College Costs

It doesnt matter whether or not YOU are a Democrat, troll. What matters are the editorial policies of this Democratic-party-policy-promoting rag and whether those policies are enforced. What matters in the schools is whether there are sane disciplinary policies and whether they are enforced so that LEARNING and not violence, disruption, and bullying can take place. Is the lack of ability to have appropriate policies and enforce them a system wide problem for Southern Arizona Dems, in publications, in the school systems for which they want to maintain a monopoly on the use of public funds, and elsewhere? You bet. Not all Dems everywhere are this way, but these are. Why this is the case is interesting and a lot could be said about it, but I wouldnt want to bore you any further so I wont elaborate.

14 likes, 16 dislikes
Posted by Reply to a troll on 12/06/2017 at 5:54 PM

Re: “Know Your Product

Skating Polly has been a favorite for the past few years, since Exene Cervenka of X produced their 2nd record, "Lost Wonderfuls." They are incredible live, and I know we're going to be hearing from them for a long time, since they are incredibly talented! Go see them, they are fantastic!

Posted by XRaySpex000 on 12/06/2017 at 1:48 PM

Re: “Ed Sec Betsy DeVos on School Choice, College Costs

Too bad that they can't keep the thuggish trolls out.

I could actually read an article without being exposed to a certain person's rants that are usually twice as long as the article itself.

By the way, I'm not a democrat. Just a person who dislikes the way you present your opinion. Big difference there bub.

17 likes, 17 dislikes
Posted by Thuggish behavior in comment streams: unnecessary! on 12/06/2017 at 1:08 PM

Re: “The New, New Jim Crow

...and the choir sang AMEN!

25 likes, 15 dislikes
Posted by Mona S on 12/06/2017 at 11:43 AM

Re: “The New, New Jim Crow

The constitution guarantees freedom of religion. Separation of church and state is a principle put in place to try to defend freedom of religion, to prevent the state from requiring membership in a state sponsored religion and / or discriminating economically or otherwise against people who refuse to practice a state sponsored religion, which is what the English government and Church of England had been doing in the country from which many of our original settlers in New England came. It is deeply ironic that what we have going on in this country now is economic discrimination against those who elect to enroll in religious schools of their own choosing. In many ways it looks as though we've just switched the previous bias for the Church of England to a bias for secularism. "Recovering Catholics" should not be using public policy to punish the church they have left and / or to economically discriminate against fellow citizens who choose to continue affiliating with it.

What does my critique have to do with David's post? Easy to answer: David mentioned discrimination against Hispanics and Muslims. I was extending the argument that we should not discriminate against ethnic and religious minorities (a position with which I agree) further than David took it to say that public policy should not discriminate against Hispanic Roman Catholics who want to use their per-pupil funding in Catholic schools. How is my argument "selfish"? I am not a Mexican immigrant, nor am I a low-income Hispanic Roman Catholic. In making the argument, I am advocating for fairer treatment of a group to which I do not belong.

Making reasoned, fact-based arguments against ideas with which you disagree is not, in my opinion, "pathetic." What is "pathetic"? People who use these comment streams to engage in ad hominem attacks. If you disagree with the ideas, say so and give reasons. Name calling ("selfish"; "pathetic") demonstrates nothing about the validity of the arguments with which you would like to disagree.

Every time one of these ugly comments is posted and remains up, it tells us something about what Tucson Weekly is, and something about what kinds of behaviors are probably taught in the form of schooling name-callers and bullies prefer. And that only strengthens the validity of the position my camp argues from. So thanks for that.

25 likes, 25 dislikes
Posted by Bullies and bigots do not persuade on school policy. on 12/06/2017 at 11:13 AM

Re: “The New, New Jim Crow

Oh, whatever. As a recovering Catholic, I can say with a clear conscience that if you choose to let religion warp and poison your child's education, then YOU can pay for it. But NOT WITH MY MONEY, and especially not when it flies in the face of one of the key principles upon which this nation was founded: separation of church and state.

And, anyway, what the heck does your selfish "critique" have to do with David's excellent post on institutional racism? Nothing, so why are you even wasting the space? Is your sole animating purpose to prove David Safier wrong about everything? Pretty pathetic.

29 likes, 26 dislikes
Posted by skinnyman on 12/06/2017 at 10:05 AM

Re: “The New, New Jim Crow

I worked hard, had some success and moved to an upper income foothills home. Upon arriving I found two black families and a green card alien from Mexico. All are now friends and all voted for Trump.

Blaming others for non existent racism does not help you understand why you lost the election. It may be that you are simply to afraid to face the truth. But that kind of thinking is partially to blame.

27 likes, 30 dislikes
Posted by Wayne Olson on 12/06/2017 at 9:55 AM

Re: “Full Court Press: Deandre Ayton and Arizona host Texas A&M in Phoenix

PJC is the wrong person to inbound the ball. He is to short to get the visibility needed, then he inbounds it to some non dribblers (which he is good at), and they shoot free throws which he is better at. Even Walton commented "why is the shortest guy on the floor, inbounding the ball when he can't see, and then he has to burn timeouts?"

The point that won last night's game was made by anybody that scored one. That's all it took to win. You can't randomly select who to give that honor to.

Great game none the less. We made Texas look like a non #7. Much like everybody did to us in the Bahamas. Going to be a wild year. Glad we have Ayton!

7 likes, 9 dislikes
Posted by Wayne Olson on 12/06/2017 at 9:51 AM

Re: “Full Court Press: Deandre Ayton and Arizona host Texas A&M in Phoenix

You're wrong about that UNLV game, too--it was Trier who had the game-high scoring output for the Cats with 29.

A&M came in with the 4th best D in the country, so no surprise that they curbed Arizona's offensive enthusiasm. They double-teamed Ayton all night, quite effectively. Trier and Ayton combined for only 20 points, and Arizona had exactly two fast break points all night--NOT a track meet.

The Cats won that game because they finally played a decent defensive game for the first time all year, and because other players besides Trier and Ayton stepped up.

Say what you will about PJC, but he had the huevos to hit the huge shot at the end that provided the winning advantage. I'll take it.

9 likes, 7 dislikes
Posted by skinnyman on 12/06/2017 at 9:50 AM

Re: “Full Court Press: Deandre Ayton and Arizona host Texas A&M in Phoenix

You're wrong about that UNLV game, too--it was Trier who had the team-high scoring output with 29.

A&M had the 4th best D in the country coming in, so no surprise that they curbed Arizona's offensive production. They were double-teaming Ayton all night, and Trier and Ayton combined for only 20 points. And the Cats had exactly two fast break points all night--NOT a track meet.

The Cats won that game because they finally played fairly consistent defense for the first time all year, and because other players besides Trier and Ayton stepped up. The Cats also double-teamed A&M's excellent big man (Williams) and really shut him down.

Say what you want about PJC, but he had the huevos to very coolly hit the shot of the game that gave Arizona the winning advantage at the the end.

9 likes, 7 dislikes
Posted by skinnyman on 12/06/2017 at 9:45 AM

Re: “The New, New Jim Crow

David Safier writes, "It would be a mistake of omission to leave Hispanics and Muslims off the list of targeted groups in the Trump era. [...] Trump based much of his campaign on The Wall to keep out Mexicans and The Ban to keep out Muslims."

What about Mexican immigrants who are Roman Catholic, David? You forgot to mention the discriminatory public policy your party favors that would seek to prevent them from applying the public per-pupil funding their tax dollars supply in the schools many of them would like most like their children to attend. Your party values ethnic traditions as long as they involve colorful clothing, lively music, and good food, but not, it seems, when they involve religious beliefs. Your party teaches that lower-SES populations, Hispanic and otherwise, should have free public schooling in secular public district schools but MAKE THEM PAY OUT OF POCKET!!! if they'd prefer to send their children to a Catholic school. In most cases, especially where families are larger, this makes attending the schools some prefer financially impossible. But this party position isn't a way to try to use public policy and economic disincentives to secularize a particular immigrant population in a country whose constitution guarantees freedom of religion, is it? Surely not.

Oops, I think we may have tripped over one of the many hypocrisies of Safier's party's agenda. Dems froth at the mouth over discrimination against Muslims but are equally prone to frothing at the mouth as they vehemently support public policy that prevents Roman Catholics from using public funds to educate their children in schools with a church affiliation. They "support education," but would rather that per pupil funding that could be applied to educate children stay in the state's coffers un-used when a student is pulled out of a public school and enrolled in a Catholic school. Without tax credits, ESAs, etc., that's what happens when a student transfers from a public school to a Catholic school: the money that could have been applied for their education remains in the state's bank accounts, for Ducey to give away in corporate tax credits or one of his other corporate welfare programs. The family pays out of pocket, reducing the amount they can save for inflated college tuition by the amount they must pay for K-12. Very humane, Dems. Very "pro-education." Very supportive of "diversity." (Of some kinds, but not of other kinds. You have to be diverse in the right (politically correct) way to please the Dems, or to qualify for the public funding they like to dole out to some groups but not to others.)

25 likes, 28 dislikes
Posted by Consistency is lacking here again. What a surprise. on 12/06/2017 at 9:21 AM

Re: “Full Court Press: Deandre Ayton and Arizona host Texas A&M in Phoenix

I was there and nothing you predicted was accurate. Ristic and PJC hurt us in so many ways. The new freshmen won the game. Sorry I send hoarse from yelling at the coach.

7 likes, 9 dislikes
Posted by Jonathon K on 12/06/2017 at 6:45 AM

Re: “The New, New Jim Crow

David, two more great reads on the subject: "Stamped from the Beginning" by Ibram X. Kendi, an incredibly well researched and documented (and damning) history of the racist ideas that undergird the country from day one...Warning! if American exceptionalism appeals to you, it probably won't after reading this book, as it was certainly used in the early days (as today) as a form of white supremacy....and "Color of Law" by Richard Rothstein which traces an insidious history of the US government role in segregation through very careful (and tended) redlining through the use of segregated home (and home building/developers') loans, VA benefits, neighborhood covenants, etc. These tiny bureaucratic details that were instituted by every federal agency resulted in the creation of white neighborhoods (and, by definition, non-white neighborhoods) that remain today, and that are frequently cited as the reason we cannot desegregate our schools. If you thought neighborhood segregation was just because "people like to live around their own kind" think again. There are serious economic incentives to do so and they go all the way back through our history.

29 likes, 24 dislikes
Posted by Betts Putnam-Hidalgo on 12/06/2017 at 6:14 AM

Re: “Bad Grades

Three Sonorans,
Hispanics have every opportunity to get a quality education at TUSD! MAS, a proven anti-American class was rightfully eliminated from the course of studies has nothing to do with it, and absolutely nothing to do with racism, that is a cop out! Stick to Math, Science, American History, reading, writing, languages and Physical Fitness.

0 likes, 5 dislikes
Posted by Douglas Niemela on 12/05/2017 at 10:10 PM

Re: “Ed Sec Betsy DeVos on School Choice, College Costs

I see that I was right in a previous comment when I predicted that TW will not be able to keep the thugs out of its comment streams. Is TWs inability to eliminate bad behavior, insults and aggressions here somehow related to the Democratic Partys inability to keep the schools it would like to retain their monopoly on the use of public funds from descending into chaos? Its an interesting question.

http://tucson.com/news/local/tusd-pours-resources-into-east-side-school-in-effort-to/article_d3d0b851-48ac-5b35-8de9-1d7d3e0c6776.html

http://tucson.com/news/local/education/discipline-problems-at-secrist-trigger-special-tusd-task-force/article_2c7cfee0-2dec-5e6c-8298-743298b3abf2.html

19 likes, 19 dislikes
Posted by Thuggish behavior in schools & comment streams: related? on 12/05/2017 at 4:29 PM

Re: “Ed Sec Betsy DeVos on School Choice, College Costs

My comments are always way too long, way too boring and chock full of misinformation. I can't help but point out that David Safier is always wrong, even though he backs up what he says with actual facts. Gaw...I can't stand that.

(Plus, I always type a paragraph or two that reside within parentheses.)

I should focus on more important things, but I can't help myself.

Please help me! I have obvious mental issues.

20 likes, 21 dislikes
Posted by ...and A Comment Referencing My Mental Illness on 12/05/2017 at 2:45 PM

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