The Tucson chapter of the political social group Drinking Liberally has been banned from 4th Avenue bar The Shanty, its longtime hosting venue, following an alleged incident on June 25th, which prompted Shanty owner William Nugent to ask, via the Shanty Facebook page, that “Drinking Liberally, as a whole, not return to The Shanty.” In the statement posted Friday evening, Nugent also singled out chapter members Jim Hannley and his wife Pamela Powers Hannley, and accused the group of “inappropriate and badgering comments” directed at regular Shanty patrons. Nugent cited DL’s “rude behavior displayed toward staff and a general sense of entitlement,” though he stated that DL members themselves were always treated with respect from the historic bar’s employees.
According to those familiar with Tucson’s chapter of Drinking Liberally, which has been holding weekly meetings almost exclusively at The Shanty for nearly a decade, tension has been building over the last year between the two. Nationally, Living/Drinking Liberally has dozens of chapters in 42 states, with its goal to “build democracy one drink at a time.” As Nugent stated, Tucson’s DL meetings were initially “a casual setting to converse about government issues and current events.” The Shanty and DL have long been a go-to stop for any local or statewide political candidate seeking the approval of well-connected Tucsonans on the left. Together, the two have hosted functions featuring Rep. Raul Grijalva, former Rep. and Shanty fixture Gabrielle Giffords, and several Free Baja Arizona rallies, including the taping of a Daily Show segment with correspondent Aasif Mandvi that never aired.
One local Drinking Liberally member who did not wish to be named pointed to the departure of longtime DL host and Tucson attorney Michael Bryan as one of the key factors in the group recently losing its vitality and relevance within Tucson’s political circles. As this member bluntly put it, after Bryan left, “they were just left with the nitwits. In the end, the more obnoxious holier-than-thou slacktivists were all that was left. Given how they treated other patrons and how little money they spent, I’m surprised Bill (Nugent) didn’t kick them out sooner.”
The final straw for Nugent occurred during a June 25th meeting billed as “Broadening Broadway.” The rear patio which Drinking Liberally normally uses was being occupied by a paid private event; DL members allegedly complained loudly and profusely about being moved inside. A confrontation between Nugent and DL followed the alleged harassment of the private event’s guests by DL members. It should be noted that The Shanty has never charged Drinking Liberally for any of these patio meetings and events through the years, which can last from three hours to an entire evening.
Since the volatile June 25th meeting, Drinking Liberally has been searching for a new venue in July, jumping from The Shelter, Borderlands Brewing Company, and, this past Wednesday the 16th, the Red Garter Saloon. A photo posted on Facebook during the Red Garter event included the comment: “We had a great time on the patio at the Red Garter for DL classic. More joined us later. So nice to have plenty of parking, a decent pour of pretty good wine, many beer choices, FOOD, service on the patio, and we don’t have to bus our own frickin’ tables. Good-bye, Shanty. Speaking for myself and not DL, I will never be back.”
The photo has since been deleted, but not before prompting Shanty owner Nugent to post his definitive statement on the bar’s relationship with Drinking Liberally. The screenshot of the Red Garter photo and comment below was obtained by the Tucson Weekly.
- TUCSON WEEKLY
UPDATE: At 10:45 am today, Pamela Powers Hannely responded on Facebook to The Shanty’s statement and gave a clarification to the Red Garter photo comment:
What I wrote isn’t an attack. It’s the truth. His accusations are unfounded. I’ve never seen or heard a DL person being rude to the staff. Speaking for Jim and I only, we always tipped the bartender and became pretty friendly with some of them over the years.
The last DL meeting at the Shanty was horrid because Nugent booked a large group on the patio without telling DL in advance. That night we had a pretty large crowd also and great speaker who couldn’t be heard. Some coordination by the Shanty would have been the professional way to handle the situation he created. Nugent should have come out on the patio and apologized to both groups for the double booking; instead he avoided the scene on the patio. The only reason I’ve been going to The Shanty since 2006 is for Drinking Liberally; there were many nights that DL folks were the only people in that bar. I got sick of the stale popcorn, crappy wine, and bird poop years ago. (Again, my personal opinion.) From a business standpoint, attacking former regular customers is not wise.
In a private message, Powers Hannely added, “The Shanty has a lot of new competition within walking distance. I think he will have to step up his game if he expects to survive.”
Keep checking back on The Range as this story continues to develop.
The full text from William Nugent’s statement on the Shanty’s Facebook page:
The Shanty would like to address the departure of the Wednesday night group, “Drinking Liberally.” The gathering was supposed to be a casual setting to converse about government issues and current events. However, in recent times, this political discussion group had been exhibiting rude and inappropriate behavior while merely using our facility to hold their weekly discourse. At times, inappropriate and badgering comments were directed at other customers, rude behavior displayed toward staff and a general sense of entitlement was shown in a setting where they were guests and treated with respect.
Jim and Pamela Powers Hannley have chosen to use Facebook as their forum to express displeasure in how they felt The Shanty treated them. This reaction was not unexpected. Again, their personal views have clouded a business decision on our part and shown why it was easy to terminate our hosting of their committee. We ask that the Hannleys and Drinking Liberally, as a whole, not return to The Shanty. – William Nugent
This article appears in Jul 17-23, 2014.
“The last DL meeting at the Shanty was horrid because Nugent booked a large group on the patio without telling DL in advance.”
Sounds like Drinking Liberally just proved Bill’s point. The question to DL would be, “You planned a large meeting with a speaker. Did you notify the bar that you would require the space?” Seems to me the group took a lot for granted. A bar owner should not have to notify what is supposed to be an informal group that he needs a space for a paid event. It is a business after all, not someone’s living room.
The Shanty was a natural place to hold the Citizen’s recent 5-year-closed anniversary party. But just because there is a regular group that has met informally there for years, we didn’t just assume that there would be space for us. We asked Bill if we could hold our party there and he was gracious – AS ALWAYS – to us.
I have no connection to or beef with Drinking Liberally, but the organizers who are there now might remember this for future patronage, wherever they go. Courtesy goes a long way. If they are hosting a speaker, they might want to notify the bar in advance – not expect things to be the other way around.
I for one will not miss DL at the Shanty, Bill had every right to show them the door.
The headline is misleading. The parting was mutual. DL dumped the Shanty also. Despite the thousands of dollars DL spent at the Shanty, the hundreds of politicians we brought there to speak, and all of the free social media wasted on promoting that place, we were disrespected on many occasions by the Shanty. The June 25 event was the last double-booking we’ll have to suffer. And for the record, Al Flick, it was a member of your group who walked over to the DL group and stood in the middle of it shouting and putting us down.
Good customer service goes a long way, as competition increases. With the Shanty’s new competition in the downtown beer joint genre, we’ll see how it goes for this “classic” in the future.
I love it when “news” organizations quote anonymous name callers as sources.
Also, the photo is still on Facebook.
That’s an issue that Tucson’s open carry group doesn’t have.
Calling out your customers (even former customers) in public is bad form. Shanty, shame on you. They are right about the stale popcorn – much better places nearby. The fb post by DL was not out of line.
These old white folks are … gasp … LIBERALS? Look more like the Oro Valley Towne Council!
AJ Flick – sounds like they had a regular booking at the Shanty – since they address them as the “Wednesday Night Group.” Would have been common courtesy to inform long time customers of a double booking.
Not for nothing, but I’ve had friends turned away at the door of that place for things like wearing a tanktop and being pregnant. I’ve never really seen the appeal of the place.
You’d think at their age they’d have a foundation of manners. Coming from someone who hosts drinking activities for large groups it is very well known that drunks don’t know they are being rude. I have not had much luck with quality service at the Shanty. ..but to hell with entitled drunks who don’t spend.
More room for those of us who love the best bar in Tucson!
The DL’ers look pretty pale and old. Better start recruiting a younger and more diverse membership or you’ll be holding your meetings at Villa Hermosa soon.
DL = boorish.
Thanks for the clarification. I caught part of the FB mudslinging and since I don’t frequent the DL group (I’m not a “joiner.”) I was wondering if the Shanty had some sort of beef with liberals in general or something.
Sounds like they had every right to show these folks the door. Just because you have traditionally been allowed to use a space doesn’t mean you own it. I guess they were asserting squatters rights or something.
Makes me very glad I’m not a “joiner” and never joined this group.
I see a “Hadley” slinging some mud at the Weekly in the comments here. Sounds like someone has a problem with adult behavior.
It wasn’t double booking. DL didn’t pay for their spot, they have no grounds to be upset when asked to give up that spot to a group who paid for it. What a bunch of self centered jerks.
DL has brought hundreds of people to The Shanty– including Congressional representatives– and given The Shanty years of *free* publicity. Who is anonymous and how does he know how much was spent over ~eight years? Wait staff on the patio would have helped the beer sales.
Hadley what bunch of BS, The Congressional representatives that come to the Shanty are there for one reason. That reason is Bill Nugent, Bill is by far the most connected “D” in the city. If you want to know who, what or where things are happening than he is the one who will know. The thing that you are to thick to understand is that you are playing in a league way above your head. Yes, it may be true that the DL has brought hundreds of people to the Shanty, but 5 people a week will not convince anyone that the DL is anything than a bunch of Gummy Bear eatting goofballs. I for one of many would call Bill a friend.
“Drinking Liberally” explains a lot about Tucson. BTW I saw you guys can get 12 bottles of beer at Walgreens cheaper than 2 at a bar. So if you are too stupid to see an opportunity when you see it, LD, that’s on you.
Fantastic. I have been going to the Shanty for decades and my only complaint is the jerk-offs of Drinking Liberals having their meetings there, which Is when I always try to avoid the place. Congrats to Bill Nugent for finally cleaning up what is normally a fine establishment. Now I know to avoid the Red Garter Saloon.
I debated whether to comment on this matter, since I was not present, but as I was mentioned in the article, I think my perspective might be of interest to some. Though I have not hosted DL, nor in fact attended but rarely, for some time now, I’m saddened and disappointed that DL’s long and fruitful relationship with a wonderful and storied local business has ended in acrimony. It is especially sad that it has become so public.
During my years hosting DL, I always found Bill Nugent to be helpful, accommodating, and kind. I love The Shanty and have the greatest respect for Bill. He has a business to run, and if DL was not enhancing his business, it is right that he should end the association. Keep a Grimbergen cold for me, Bill. I’ll always come back to The Shanty. As one commenter astutely pointed out, Bill’s bar is the place where the heartbeat of Tucson is heard most clearly.
That said, I think Drinking Liberally serves an important need in our community and am hopeful that it will become established in a new location. It is a tremendous comfort to know that there is a community of liberal, open-minded folks who want to discuss the issues of the day in a thoughtful, substantive and civil manner. I fondly recall the many evenings spent debating and discussing, celebrating and commiserating, and generally enjoying the society and good will of my fellow citizens.
I hope that this unfortunate misunderstanding does not discourage folks from enjoying the pleasures of Drinking Liberally with your fellow citizens.
The Shanty has always treated my friends. well…..they have a long history of keeping the place safe, treating employees well, and providing excellent customer service.
The Shanty is owned by a D. Any small business owner who votes for more taxes, regulations and control by government has got to be an idiot. I’ll spend my money elsewhere.
Tom: AJ Flick – sounds like they had a regular booking at the Shanty – since they address them as the “Wednesday Night Group.” Would have been common courtesy to inform long time customers of a double booking.
No squatting rights for non-paying groups who don’t reserve a space. “Booking” an event means reserving the space, not just assuming it’s going to be held for you no matter what. Au contraire, if DL had a speaker planned and were expecting a group, DL should have made sure the space would be available and not just assume (you know what that does). Unless you have a paid booking, you can’t just assume that there won’t be a conflict with the business at which you gather.
Hadley: And for the record, Al Flick, it was a member of your group who walked over to the DL group and stood in the middle of it shouting and putting us down.
For the record, I am not one of those who congregates at The Shanty (on a regular basis), but I was aware of those who did and, as one of the organizers of our event, didn’t assume we could just take over the patio when we wanted to.
Wherever DL chooses to meet, I hope they treat the business owners with more respect. They just might get some in return.
Bill and the waitstaff are great. Helpful, efficient and respectful. The patio is the best place in town for a beer and to catch up with friends.
Well, well. I am not surprised to see the name Jim Hannely associated with assholish behavior. I remember his time as a board member at KXCI.
Bill and the Shanty staff are terrific. I have enjoyed going there for nearly 30 years. We have been going there nearly every Friday to meet with friends and coworkers. It’s the best patio in town.
Oh Lordy, please tell me they aren’t relocating to The Red Garter… it’s such a nice neighborhood bar.
Drinking Liberally just met Free Enterprise and Private Ownership of a business. Free Enterprise 37- Drinking Liberally -0.
The times they are changing. It’s clear that as downtown Tucson evolves, the anchors of tradition will be challenged and challenge each other. I’ve heard a nasty rumor that 4Th ave will be filled with franchises if some of governing groups have their way. What about infusing funds into the anchors of this area and helping them continue to be relevant.
“Infusing funds”?? So who’d money are you going to spend.? You spend a dime of my money on bars for drunk U of A students or Birkenstock shops or more bead stores and I will be very mad.
Typical Progressive view on the economy!
typo..who’s not who’d sorry
I will infuse my funds into The Shanty and go a little more often 🙂
(PS: It would be “whose” not “who’s” or “who’d”)
AJ Flick-thanks for the correction! lol
Typical liberal entitlement mentality on full display. Love it!
“if the Shanty is to survive?” I live in Phoenix and every time I’m in Tucson I try to visit the Shanty (stale popcorn and all, which I ate when I was there in June). I’ve been going there since the 1970’s because The Shanty is always The Shanty and that’s why I love it. The Red Garter, a place I have never been, sounds like a jaded dinner theatre with bad musical comedy.
Liberals suck, every time they try to make a real decision! I’m sending Ted’s brother some cash.
I’ve attended DL over the years and here’s an explanation from Pamela Powers from her Tucson Progressive blogsite: http://tucson-progressive.com/2014/07/21/d…
I really dislike the Shanty. So many better choices Downtown.
I am a liberal, but I say good riddance to bad behavior. It ‘s Bill’s bar and if he does not want tank tops (allowed during street fairs) that is his choice. Bill is a good liberal too, but he does not want, and should not have to put up with immature behavior. Maybe the problem is they were drinking to liberally and couldn’t control their mouths.
i never beleive Dr Eziza can get Hayes back to me and stop him from drinking after several ways to get him back all failed until this memory day that i saw how Dr Eziza helped a certain lady call Mabel, i contacted him and he also put a smile on my face. In case you are having a tough time in your home with your lover contact him on ezizaoguntemple@gmail.com or call +2348058176289
And just think- Pam wants to write laws for me and my children, and can’t even follow the rules/laws. NO WAY! Vote only one- Ana Henderson for LD9
If I were the owner I would NEVER have let that group squat in my bar, maybe Nancy Peloser can suggest a more suitable place for them lol
If youre planning an event with a guest speaker and are expecting a larger than usual crowd, call ahead and either offer to rent the space or let the owner know so space can be reserved for your group
I lived in Tucson from the early to mid 80s and was a regular at the Shanty, it was a great little neighborhood bar with an awesome selection of beer from around the world, it was fun to try different beer from a different country all from the comfort of your barstool, you dont go there to drink wine
Back then it wasnt easy to find such a large selection of imported beer all under one roof, not even the liquor stores had as good a selection
You also dont go to the Shanty for the popcorn if you want popcorn go to a movie lol
I remember the popcorn, it wasnt bad
I lived right up the street from the Shanty and usually went there by myself, the clientele was pretty laidback and the bartenders did a nice job
Nothing wrong with a dresscode, personally I think tank tops are for the beach or if you are in Tucson, Sabino Canyon, Reddington Pass and or Puerto Peasco
If you dont like the rules go somewhere else, there was a sign that used to hang in bars and restaurants
We Reserve The Right To Refuse Service To Anyone For Any Reason We need to put this sign back up
I moved away many years ago but when I visit Tucson I always head to the Shanty, and if Im hungry Ill go to El Charro first, if Im hungry later then its El Minuto for a cheese crisp.
This August will mark my 40th year of going to The Shanty. Other than moving the restrooms very little has changed. The copper and green theme is inviting. The entire bar area is kept up to high standards. More than once I’ve seen the waitstaff polishing the copper tabletops, copper bar top and copper pillars. Bill Nugent has been consistent with his policies and trains his employees to be professional in every way. But, patrons also have a code they need to follow. As a customers in any place, one should simply strive to be polite and respectful.
When talking to folks about where to get a drink in Tucson, The Shanty is always my first recommendation. The variety of beer, the ambiance and the well kempt patio are the best selling points.