SB 1432: Because If Our Toilets Aren’t Sacred, What Is?

1. Thanks for the coverage. I’d like to suggest an edit, though… “matches the gender you were born with” makes no sense. You’re born with some parts. A doctor takes a look and assigns you to a sex based on those parts, which usually but not always (as in the case of trans people) aligns with the gender you develop as you grow up. A better phrasing might be “matches the sex you were assigned at birth”.

2. Ellen — Thanks for your comment and helping us walk this terrain. We can always use the help and it’s much appreciated.

3. What really busts my butt on this one is that it is being snuck into a bill that has to do with providing an executive director to the board of licensing for massage therapists. So how we get from massage therapy license to transgender people should be arrested is far beyond my comprehension. It sucks, and it shows the very heart of what is wrong with our legislative system. It would have been bad on its own, but sneaking it into something totally unrelated is really shitty.

4. I gotta tell you, if the man room is occupied, I’m going to drop my poops in the lady toilet. Are they planning on having attendants to give out mints and check grundles?

5. I was once the target of a, presumably and most likely, homosexual advance via “toe tapping”, LOL, didn’t know what it was at the time, but I was in college (and happen to be straight) and the guy next to me kept putting his feet into my stall (at LAX) and tapping like crazy, I thought it was to annoy so I kicked his foot away! Later found out that some gay men use the restroom as a place to hook up.

   Point being: the proposed law is ridiculous, people, even of the same “sex”, will go an do weird things in the bathrooms anyway.

6. Ellen, that’s nuts. Doctors don’t “assign” a sex a birth. When babies are born they either have a penis or a vagina. That’s what determines your sex/gender. The doctor just observes and records it. The only exceptions are the super-rare instances of hermaphrodites.

7. Common sense: all due respect, you have no idea what you are talking about. You don’t seem to be differentiating sex from gender. Genitals, and thusly sex, are noticeable at birth; you are male or female, genetically, from birth. What doctors do ASSIGN, as well as parents and family members and society, is gender. They say “this is a girl,” when the accurate statement is “this is a female.” Terms like boy, girl, he, she, man, woman, those indicate gender, which are different from the terms male and female, which indicate sex. A transgendered individual, as well as cisgendered individuals, WERE assigned gender at birth, as everyone assumed that the vagina indicated girlhood or the penis indicated boyhood, though in the case of a trans child or gender non-conformant child, they were wrong. Also, you say that super-rare exceptions to this observation are cases of hermaphrodites. Firstly, ‘hermaphrodite’ is an ugly derogatory term. I believe the word you were looking for was ‘intersexed.’ Now that the has been established, intersexism isn’t at all a super-rare occurrence. As there are varying degrees of intersexed conditions, as much as two percent of births (last I checked the numbers) include some kind of intersex condition. Not so small in the grand scheme.

8. My birth certificate says “sex”, not “gender”, and the text of the proposed bill references that term; legally that’s what we’re assigned.

   The standard terms for this among the gender studies crowd, CAMAB and CAFAB (coercively assigned male/female at birth; or their less in-your-face cousins MAAB/FAAB) also reference sex, not gender.

   Maureen, I do agree with you that the erroneous process of people taking sex as an absolute determinant of gender (or, more realistically, failing to make the distinction in the first place that they are separate things) starts at birth (or before if the sex is assigned prior to birth). Of course it’s completely silly to talk about the gender of a infant/fetus that hasn’t even developed self-awareness yet, but that’s another issue…

9. An emergency? I’ve lived quite peacefully among you Tucson for the past 18 years. Never caused a problem. I don’t like using public restroom any more than most other women. And I’m single minded when I go in. My only consideration is taking care of business, so that I don’t have to be there. What is the Emergency? Has there been a sudden explosion in the Trans population in Arizona? Are Trans people suddenly flocking to gender appropriate bathrooms all over the state, keeping “normal” people doing the pee-pee dance at establishments everywhere? What is the problem? 18 years people…
   On a side note, this is as much a slap in the face to F2M citizens as M2F. However these moronic laws are usually aimed at transwomen. But this law will be a case of very dumb people shooting themselves in the foot just for the chance to be cruel to some one. May I remind you all that not all transmen are the cute cuddly, rolly polly Chaz bono types. Some of them are big, hairy, full bearded, muscle bound, deep voiced, body builder types. This law passes, and how comfortable do you think these right wing hate mongers are going to feel when one of my big, Grizzly Adams type brothers walks in to their sacred “female only” spaces?

10. I suspect it’s the Coy Mathis case that prompted this latest insanity, a solution looking for a problem that doesn’t exist. I don’t care who uses the stall next to me. What they’ve got under their Fruit of the Looms is not my business, and we are all entitled to privacy in the restroom.

11. Im’ a woman and more than once in my lifetime, if there was a long line at the “Ladies” room, would plant a friend at the door of the men’s room and go in and use it if it were empty, especially if it was a one-seater. I think this bill is the height of ridiculousness. I woudln’t even have a problem going into a men’s room in an emergency, calling out “woman in the room” first (probably- but not necessarily) to get to a stall. I don’t know one man who hasn’t seen what a woman’s got nor a woman who hasn’t seen what a man’s got so seriously, unless something funky’s going on, like the guy described above, I don’t see a problem.

12. What I wanna know is this: Who is going to check the “reality v/ the visual”? I mean, is a cop gonna go in to the ladies’ room and shout out “FREEZE! This is check of your snarglies! We are going to make sure that you are really a lady and not an imposter”. I mean, these days so many transgendered persons look so much like the gender they identify with that it’s virtually impossible to tell any different unless you really do perform a genital check. And how, on a violation, is a deputy or a police officer (and yes, I was one for 28 years) going to check “the package, the goodies, the snarglies”? Some one of the City Council want to enlighten us? Hmmm???

13. Technically this law states that you must use the room that is on your birth certificate. It is possible to have that information changed. My transgender brother had his birth certificate changed to male during his transition so he would still be able to use the male restroom under the guidelines of that law even though he has no yet had a bottom surgery to have male sex organs.

14. On a side note, since the scientific community recognizes Man and Woman as Gender and Male and Female as SEX, a facility marked Man, or Woman, does NOT designate it Male only or Female only. Thus even if it ends up passing a strong case can be made for us who commit disorderly conduct by having to pee.
    Next, signs which only show an image of a person in a dress or pants, further complicate this. Being that, while the meaning might be “understood” they specifically create separation based on appearance. ie. A woman in pants should have equal access to the bathroom with an image of a person in pants, as a man (not transwoman) in a dress, should have free access to the other. Every bathroom in arizona would have to be relabeled to specify “Available only to those who’s birth certificate shows them to be physically female, or who have a chromosomal arrangement of XX XX. And vise versa.
    Passing this law will require hundreds of thousands of dollars in enforcement costs. Housing costs for those convicted. And will require a whole list of new laws to change our language so that Man is not gender, Woman is not gender, it is sex. So, how will we define gender when they do this?

15. Unfortunately, we keep having the wrong argument. LGBT is a FRAUD! The LGBT agenda has nothing to do with sexual orientation and everything to do with “deconstructionism” AKA Social Marxism and the destruction of social order. These people don’t care one wit about a person’s “orientation”. They only care about tearing down ALL “social constructs” (as they call separate bathrooms for men and women) so they, the social engineers (like Bloomburg, George Soros, et al) can reorder society however they see fit. Sadly, and in virtually every case, socialists always leave societies for worse off than they found them (see Mao, Pol Pot, Fidel Castro, V. Lenin, and many more such murderous sociopaths too numerous to list)

16. Dear justsayin
    I am thrilled for your brother. May all the blessing of the universe fall upon you both.
    However, Many, many transpeople were born in states that will not alter a birth record. Transpeople in arizona while technically allowed to do this, under the current administration, are simply ignored. Plain and simple, it’s legal but Jan won’t allow it.

17. A study in Australia a few years ago reported that at least four percent of all human births are of intersexed people. Four percent of all humans have ambiguous genitalia. It’s a recent phenomenon (since the 1950s) that doctors made decisions to, “correct,” these genitalia with surgery to make the newborn into a male or a female.

    Gender identity is revealed as part of the normal and usual self-differentiation process that every human goes through between 3 and 6 years old. Sometimes, a person’s gender doesn’t correspond with the sex they were assigned at birth. Transfolk don’t just wake up one day and decide to,”change their sex.” Their gender identity is as solid as everyone else’s and doesn’t depend upon genitalia, or chromosomes, or hormones or certainly not the superstitions or prejudices of Arizona lawmakers.

    Yet another dumb law in a state world-famous for its dumb laws.

18. It’s even more ridiculous. There aren’t any exceptions for opposite-gender attendants accompanying someone who needs assistance–like for example, your 4-year-old.

19. I have accidentally walked into the womens restroom, so has my 9 year old son. Is it a crime now?

    Oh boy.

20. Because Arizona has so much extra money to waste, they’re coming up with BS laws like this one…spending their time and our taxpayer money creating something that the public didn’t ask for, and then they will be wasting more of our money when they have to go to the courts when someone calls this law out on what it is: unconstitutional discrimination. Maybe if all the MORONS in this decade’s government across the board could get their sh*t together and their priorities straight, the US wouldn’t be in such a damn financial mess. Leave people alone. Equal rights for everyone, regardless of their sexual orientation, race, religion, ethnicity or sexual identification. My god people. It’s the 21st century. Grow up.

21. You REALLY want your young daughters in the restrooms with TG folks that still have their male junk?

22. One of the major problems here is not just the inherent discrimination built into this bill, its also the way we Americans view the human body. There is a difference between seeing a penis or vagina and seeing the owner of the genitalia using it in a sexual way. We need to learn to separate nudity from sex. I don’t really care if my daughters (8 and 11) see a naked man. How is that any different from them seeing some random woman naked? Similarly, I don’t care if my four-year-old son sees a nude woman or man. What I would mind if what they see involves sex in any way, including masturbation. There is nothing wrong with the human form.

    That said, I really don’t think the spirit of this bill has anything to do with this viewpoint….it is strictly bigoted and discriminatory. However, many of the constituents who are supporting this law are doing so from a place of fear of the human body….which is simply asinine.

23. Some Nut-Job legislator came out of church one Sunday and said, I have an idea for a new law. They sure know how to waste money.

24. Silliest damn thing I’ve seen since Obamacare. Someone with the ‘wrong’ plumbing will soon find it less convienient to use the wrong room. Seriously… Is THIS a problem? Before they spend ‘money’ on new signage and the like for this, they need to FIX THE ROADS!

25. Clearly…..these legislators have never been to a rock concert and seen the extended lines coming out of the ladies rooms; with a good portion of the queued masses doing the “hope I don’t squirt before I get in there” two-step.

    As well as the Band of Sisters who inevitably duck into the shorter lined men’s room where they can get some satisfaction.

    Now they will be forever designated as common criminals.
    Just what our overcrowded jails need.

26. To: cempiremtn

    >You REALLY want your young daughters in the restrooms with TG folks that still have their >male junk?

    Ever heard of a Female to Male trans person? Not cuties like Chaz Bono, no I mean Grizzly Adams types. Who still have their “girl junk” You gonna feel better when they’re using the ladies? How bout the ones that have shiny new boy junk, but cannot legally change their birth certificate, will you feel better?
    Second and most importantly, what are you trying to imply by bringing up our young daughters? I’ve used the ladies for more than a decade, I got my parts as they were from the factory down there. Are you trying to suggest I might try something inappropriate? How does your twisted mind get from a transperson needing to use the toilet, to posing a threat to “your young daughter.” Grow up. Learn something. Think before you shoot your mouth off about a subject you clearly know absolutely nothing about.

27. So does that mean I must send my toddler alone into the gender “appropriate” restroom without me if her gender conflicts with mine?

28. so we can all agree that it’s a terrible cissexist law (and really scary and dangerous for trans* & nonbinary undocumented people), but I just want to point out for those talking about child accompaniment: that actually is included as an exception not quoted in this post.

    C. SUBSECTION B OF THIS SECTION DOES NOT APPLY TO A PERSON WHO ENTERS A PUBLIC RESTROOM, BATHROOM, SHOWER, BATH, DRESSING ROOM OR LOCKER ROOM AND WHO IS OF A DIFFERENT SEX THAN THAT INDICATED ON THE SIGN IF THE PERSON IS ANY OF THE FOLLOWING:
    1. ENTERING AS PART OF THE PERSON’S JOB RESPONSIBILITIES.
    2. ENTERING TO GIVE AID OR ASSISTANCE TO ANOTHER PERSON.
    3. A CHILD WHO NEEDS ASSISTANCE.
    4. PHYSICALLY DISABLED.

29. Does this law…one way another, include school locker rooms? That is a public space.

30. I swear, nobody works harder to conflate sex and gender than the gender studies crowd. “My gender doesn’t align with my sex! My sex must be assigned wrong!” No wonder everyone is confused by them. Do they even realize how much they are reinforcing gender norms with their rhetoric?

31. Anyone who sponsors or votes for such a bill should not be in office. Vote them OUT. Who would check you? Homeland Security? They already hassle everyone they see.

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