The Flycatcher bar on Fourth Avenue may be torn up for student housing as early as this summer.
The downtown hotspot is under contract with student-housing development company out of Memphis, Education Realty Trust Inc., or EDR. A neighborhood meeting was held on Wednesday, Feb. 7, where legal representatives for the company told local residents and business owners the seven-story project would not be student housing—an assertion that was met with skepticism from Tucson City Council member Steve Kozachik.
“They are trying to thread the needle and rent these rooms in a way that makes it look like it’s not student housing,” says Steve Kozachik. “They’re not being upfront with people.”
EDR, who also built the District on 5th, is a student-housing development company. But they are avoiding the “group dwelling” designation, used for student housing and requiring the approval of mayor and council.
By renting units by the room rather than by bed, EDR could have more flexible development options and skirt parking, loading and landscaping standards, which include dimensional requirements and height increases—although the rooms will likely not be affordable to locals but only students living on their parents’ out-of-state paychecks.
The developers are using the more flexible designation of “multifamily dwelling” according to Fourth Avenue Merchants Association Executive Director Fred Ronstadt. The timeline EDR representatives laid out at Wednesday’s meeting had the groundbreaking set for sometime this summer.
Ronstadt says the developers plan on keeping 7,000 to 8,000 square-feet of retail, and that they seemed open to local retailers.
“We certainly want to make sure any new retail they bring in is local,” he says.
Student housing or no, EDR would have to meet certain design codes meant to keep downtown’s authenticity. Kozachik says design is not the issue; it’s the use. And downtown needs more affordable housing, and the University of Arizona needs to build vertically in its own footprint, he says, adding that students don’t typically spend money on Fourth Avenue.
“They’re not an add to the area, other than aggravation,” Kozachik says. “The aggravation of having more student housing is not something I want the neighbors to deal with.”
This article appears in Feb 8-14, 2018.
I’ve seen lots of good news and lots of bad news about Tucson since moving away in 1999, but this is maybe the most depressing single item I’ve seen. Even with setbacks, the precedent of a 7-story building directly on 4th Ave. is ill-considered. There are ways to build past traditional heights and do it right, Philadelphia with the long-abandoned restriction on surpassing the top of City Hall being an example. And there are ways to do it terribly wrong, and I’m living near one now, West Main Street near the U of Virginia which turned from a funky 1930s-40s stretch of low retail buildings to a claustrophobic canyon of high-rise mixed-use whatevers. 4th Avenue doesn’t need to be preserved like a Carboniferous dragonfly in amber, but good grief, any changes should be made carefully with as much vetting as the codes allow and the understanding that to a lot of people the Avenue is a sacred space no less than San Xavier.
Saddest Tucson news I’ve heard in years. If this isn’t stopped in a few years 4th will look like Mill Ave. in Tempe, i.e. garishly dominated by corporate interests. It’s fine if there’s a need for more student housing, but build it by the University, or keep building downtown, that’s mostly already lost to gentrification. Just don’t overrun the area Tucson has for arts, entertainment, local restaurants and bars, and quirky shops. Save 4th Ave before Tucson loses any semblance of character and soul.
I moved here from Portlandia. They knock down historic homes and old growth trees in order to build mixed use concrete buildings with no parking up there without any consideration to the tenants.
Venues close all the time because landlords jack up the rent, then sell off the property to developers after the tenant has investented in renovations.
Flycatcher is a great neighborhood bar and musical venue that supports local artists.
Money talks obviously….we need community minded leaderss. Who do not cow down to the almighty dollar, …..NO on another hi rise, especially on 4th
Again?! Said the then 7 year old girl in Tthe Oldest Barrio l Hoyo In 1967 when the travesty of Urban Renewal wiped out our neighborhood, culture and memories for the Grand TCC. Did I mention the out-of-towners decided this?
Now, residing 50 years north of the UofA having seen these Party Animal Housing Minidorm ruin my current neighborhood. How many damn students are you expecting?!
Build. Build. Build. Schools get the property tax, the city gets more sales tax. Rents for central housing wont be driven up by OOS Californians. Cars are taken off the road and our streetcar (read: bus on tracks) becomes more economically viable with increased density.
The commercialization of 4th Ave will kill the local shops. Real Tucsonians that have been on the Ave for 40+ years. People who love Tucson, people that care about our local economy, people that stand for what is right in the world, not profit sharing, elitism, and themselves. This is a horrific move and we must stop this from happening.
This is DISGUSTING. These investors don’t live in Tucson they have NO idea what will be good for the city. This unit is only going to be affordable to out of state students living on their parent’s dime. If they reserved some units for LOW INCOME and ACCESSIBLE housing I’d be thrilled. But we all know DAMN well none of these people have spent more than an hour on 4th ave. And LOL to Steve saying students don’t spend $ on fourth….that’s literally where they spend ALL their money. Have you actually spent time there after 8pm?
I currently live in Long Beach, CA and the same thing is happening here. We are little big city, but out Mayor wants Long Beach to not be “Long Beach” and become Santa Monica. He has allowed development of luxury condos, pricey student housing and hotels on almost every block in Downtown Long Beach. The purposely keep parking to a minimum, to push people out of our cars and ride bikes or take public transportation. Long Beach is working class, and they are building thousands of units that start at $3,000.00 per month for a studio. They want to expand outside of downtown, but the residents in certain neighborhoods are revolting and challenging the Land Use laws. 4th Street residents should challenge this development. Otherwise, once they start developing, it’s spreads fast, and nothing will be recognizable except half empty, modern style apartment buildings.
Just stop.Please! There is no one who as ever been a part of the Ave would give the ok to this!
Its been a very weird couple of months for us at the Flycatcher. We will keep trucking with shows and events until (hopefully not) the very end. Hope the community shows up with all of us at the next meeting to do all we can to stop this from happening.
Who approved this! It is destroying the charm of 4th Avenue!
I own a business directly next door to the District on 5th. I almost never see anyone from the mega apartment building in my store or even walk by my store. I only see them speed up the side street (Herbert St) with their new and usually expensive and out of state plated cars. I still try everyday but it’s very rare that I can even get a wave back when I try to be friendly as they speed by. I’ve seen drawings of the proposed building that might take the place of the Flycatcher and it is sterile and will do nothing to add to the historic nature of Fourth Avenue, instead it will take away from it. The developers own the property from 4th Ave going all the way back to 5th Ave. I suggest that they keep their high rise concept between Herbert St and 5th and keep the area between Herbert and 4th Ave as historical, thereby preserving the buildings directly on 4th. These buildings may not be quite old enough to be considered historical now but in the very near future they will be. Fourth Avenue buildings should be preserved for future generations.
Who owns the real estate? Im confused – in the old days, the land was owned by Maebelle Reed ( owner of Plush.) It was my understanding she sold to Justin McLamara. Does he own the lot? Does she ?
What’s going to happen to all this student housing when the higher education bubble finally bursts?
Good bye Tucson I loved. Another nail in the coffin.
Flood them with calls. Education Realty Trust:
901.259.2500
Noooooooooooo. Not only is Flycatcher a great venue to see bands at, this will destroy the charm of 4th Avenue.
Oh no – I just moved here a few months ago from Seattle to escape this same ruination process. I hope I didnt get here too late
This well thought out housing project checks every single box unequivocally that was created long ago by your own Tucson Planning and Zoning folks, and all of their political constituents. Their are always two or more sides to growth and progress. I truly believe that this project will further enliven and will strengthen 4th Ave as a whole. Embrace the change, get involved, and help support these developers in adding ideas and elements that the community desires to have as a part of this well envisioned and architecturally beautiful project. It meets all of the requirements, so it will be approved, and will be built. So rather than bang the drums of despair, play the instrument that can be a part of positive enhancement for the area and for the greater good. That is what I hope to do, and hope you will join in doing the same.
From what I understand, the building where Flycatcher is located is three, not seven stories. The Weekly should correct that important error.
The city and the federal govt put tens of millions into the trolley. The entire point of public transportstion is for people to live near it. It literally makes no sense to have a trolley while discouraging or fighting the inclusion of hundreds of new residents, many of them professionals and non-students to this block.
New retail for 4th Avenue may seem like a bad thing now, but I can imagine a few years from now that this high-quality retail will force the many landlords along 4th and 6th who have not upgraded their properties in decades to finally step up to the plate.
Better local tenants would jump at the chance to rent higher-quality space if it existed on 4th and to have a crack at turning the new residents into steady customers. These prospective tenants shop, party and spend their money somewhere in Tucson. Hopefully as the Avenue improves they will spend it there, which will keep the businesses thriving.
Change is by definition difficult. Hopefully these developers will vastly improve that block. Regardless of the slant of this article, I know that is their intention.
Maybe everybody should have thought of this before they let Obama ram a streetcar down their throats.What a waste of money. These students have cars, so now we need parking garages. Education is not a real employment base for a city of one million plus.
Your timeline is off, Debra. The streetcar is part of a package that voters approved in 2006. That was TWO YEARS before Obama was elected. TWO YEARS. No one “rammed a streetcar down their throats.” We in Tucson voted for it, along with a huge number of other traffic improvement projects.
I guess this is another event that leaves people who view 4th avenue as an entity that will remain behind the curve. Somewhere, it should be preserved as historic; it is a very active area as it stands and works okay with the streetcar – even though it seemed nuts to put the tracks in an area that periodically becomes pedestrian. Other towns try to build this sort of thing and we already have it!! Same with La Placita – which itself destroyed an historic area. We don’t really need more bars…and we aren’t Portland. The issue isn’t change; it isn’t the latest big thing that Tucson is chasing; it is keeping what is important. These builders will promise whatever, they will build and they will sell to someone who doesn’t need to keep the covenants.
Dumb comment from an out of towner alert (regrettably moved away in 2016): Instead of tear down Plush (Flycatcher), why not build the high rise on the SE corner of 6th Ave and 7th St (near Exo, Tap and Bottle, and Miller’s)? That is literally an empty lot that is right next to both Downtown and 4th Ave.
I try find a middle ground between development and NIMBY-ism, but I think it makes a lot more sense to direct these projects to areas that are currently vacant and not directly on 4th Ave.
To those who say build it, I say sure. Build it next to 4th Ave. Not on 4th Ave. Building it within a block or so of the Ave would still be close to the trolley but not destroy the Ave by putting a building like this in the middle of it. As a note, my Food Co-op card back in the day was #26, I was there when Chip Curry and his band (Texas All Stars?) played the week before they opened in the dirt basement.
Correction, Chip’s band when he moved to Tucson was the Rodeo Kings. Hey. it was 45 years ago.
Part of the problem is that chronic state underfunding of the University has left it dependent on undergrad tuition for revenue. Collecting as many out of state dollars as possible is crucial for the UA to survive… So don’t be surprised when they exert political pressure to cram in as many dumb-ass rich kids from surrounding states as possible, no matter what the cost to Tucson.
This is a tragedy, the two comments above notwithstanding. Hey Tucson, why do we prostitute ourselves for these projects? Where is zoning and where is anything but huge megadorms for rich out of town students? I was one of those once, and I sought out single story bungalow homes to live in….what is the problem with that model? Oh, it doesn’t cover the 10,000 extra students that UA wants to bring in? Well, UA needs to hear that it cannot destroy the soul of the city that remains after the b.s. that brought down the center of the city. Isn’t this just urban destruction? I agree with Koz (not the first time) that UA needs to build within its footprint and quit colonizing the whole damned city.
Phil Lipman and Mike Jensen, where do you live? and what is your profession? Because you sure sound like developers who don’t live in Tucson! First of all, Fourth Avenue is much more than just part of its own neighborhood. It is one of VERY VERY FEW areas in Tucson that still features small owner occupied storefronts — that is, local businesses. And not just local, but also in most cases actually affordable, as opposed to the downtown area that is local but higher end than most of the people living in this part of Tucson and South Tucson can afford to sustain. There are plenty PLENTY of people living near the streetcar around Fourth Avenue–remember all of the actual housing in the area? This area is important to many people who don’t actually live in it, as commented on above by many. So I sure hope that the residents of the area that don’t support this building will let the rest of us know when the next meeting is!
We can stand up for our neighborhoods. Its time to tell them this IS NOT happening. There are so many people that are passionate about the local tucson arts scene. We all need to stand together and start a boycott. Im serious. Im contacting people as we speak. Enough is enough.
Ya basta.
The underlying zoning of the properties in question is C-3 75 feet tall is allowed in C-3. What further complicates this situation is the it is in the Infill Incentive District or the IID. The IID trades height for design and form of the basic building. some would say the result would be better for everyone if this project is built using the IID instead of the by right C-3 zoning. Of course opinions vary.
What allows this project to be built is the zoning and the economics of the 4th Avenue district. The land was cheap, 4th ave is dis-invested, dis-investment is the precursor to reinvestment or gentrification.
EdR yes small d did not build The District on 5th. They bought it from the Anderson brothers , golf course developers from Florida who rode the student housing wave to a profit. I’m actually not sure if EdR is the 2nd or the 3rd owner but they did not build it.
It sounds as if many people commenting on this article would like to see the Flycatcher property down zoned. You can down zone your own property, the city cannot force you to down zone. A statewide ballot initiative known as proposition 207 precludes government from instituting land use policies which damage the value of your property unless they compensate you for the economic loss. If I recall correctly this proposition was promoted by out of state groups funded by Howie Rich a New York Libertarian real estate developer . Many people don’t like it when anyone tells them what to do with their property, the ballot initiative passed in 2006 with 64.8% voter approval.
Like the proverbial frog in boiling water this proposed development on 4th Ave has been a long time in coming, decades. It’s all fun and games until someone gets an eye poked out.
The RTA, Regional Transportation Authority was enabled by the passage of a ballot initiative in 2006. In the many projects included in the voter approved package was a Modern Street Car. It was however a largely unfunded mandate. It wasn’t until late 2010 when the city of Tucson secured a 63 million dollar federal TIGER grant (transportation investment generating economic recovery) that the project actually became real. So blame the voters who approved the RTA package, the city for applying for the grant and the feds who granted it for those tracks down 4th Avenue. Oops forgot. Congressman Grijalva lobbied hard on behalf of the city of Tucson to get the TIGER funding.
The flycatcher property is currently owned by Four Emeralds LLC, the listed contact person is Justin McLamarrah. The current ownership is local. Don’t forget that there are several other properties involved in this transaction and development, the former Ladson’s Noodle Factory adobe to name one. The old People’s Automotive building to name another.
If you are concerned about development in the 4th Avenue district and surrounding area then maybe you should have been paying attention to the Trinity PAD, Planned Area Development rezoning and the in process Maloney’s PAD rezoning which is coming up for its required neighborhood meeting some time soon. That one is on a fast track. This stuff is all knowable, it happens in plain sight. The city operates in public. None of this stuff lacks for process.
I cannot find any real info on Four Emeralds LLC. Is that a general real estate group, or is it the DBA name for Flycatcher in particular?
If it is the former, then it sounds like the Flycatcher may either be getting pushed out by the group that owns the property, or is having trouble making rent/lease. If it is the latter, then it sounds like they are the ones selling out. Why? Either way, I wonder whether there are hidden financial difficulties for Flycatcher lurking unmentioned in this story. Does anyone know?
AZ Corporation Commission if you want to know what there is to know. Property search on the Assessor’s (Pima County) site if you want to know who or what owns a property. Not sure that there is enough information to infer anything actually other than the ownership is local and not likely the same as the business. Liquor Board will get you to the bar license holder’s name and you can always search city of tucson business licenses and see who is listed on that.
Danyelle, or anyone, do you know what can be done? When’s the next meeting? And an even bigger question, how can we stop this sort of development from being something we constantly have to fight against? To have a city that cares about preserving its identity? Is that even possible?
I look at Fourth Avenue and see what? Maybe THREE businesses remain that were open in 1960. Caruso’s, The Shanty and the Dairy Queen. Every other business on 4th is a newcomer.
That being said, just raising another new sign on another old building might not make the business “historic” but it IS in keeping with the flavor of the area. The construction of another “modern” high-rise will diminish the current “feel” of 4th Avenue, mush as the “modern” streetcar has lost the charm of the older 4th Avenue Streetcars.
One other point, when 2068 rolls around, will there be a hue and cry to save the “historic” high-rise apartments when THEY are bulldozed, ala La Placita?
What a waste to put housing there and tear down Plush (Flycatcher).
Fourth Ave. has been dead except for The Shanty and Coronet (both of the edge of downtown)–and of course, Dairy Queen–for a while. With Piney Hollow gone there’s no retail left for me –except for ( I forgot!) Antigone and the Co-op–There is the Bookstop but I wish they had a better, more central or downtown location for their sake. Only Sky Bar tickles my club fancy. As a former hippy I know retreads when I see them–just the young visiting a past they’ve never experienced and a few down and outs plus the off and on regulars. Caruso’s has been so bad in recent years I’m surprised it still exists. Cute place but awful food now in my opinion. Yes, I was around when it was good.. Guess I haven’t gotten attached to Flycatcher. Liked Plush. But no bar has been really successful there that I recall. Do correct me. Will another high-rise hurt Fourth Ave.? Pues, I doubt it. Silly tourist stores, crappola. Lack of parking hurts. It’s already been derailed by hangers on to a past they didn’t experience and doesn’t contribute to a good New. Sixth Ave. has been more progressive and action forward. Downtown is looking good and ready for action.
Seems city “management” is just gullible as hell. They keep falling for all this dirty trickery of corporate raiding. Our city council, the mayor and mostly the city manager seem to be living in la la land. So far all I have heard is lots of talk but very little action from our city “leaders?”. City planning in Tucson is an oxymoron.
There are two men walking through the Sonoran desert and they come across this golden lamp. One man picks up the lamp and cleans it off…. POOF a genie pops out. The genie says to the two men I will grant you each one wish. The first man thinks and quickly says I want to be the most handsome sexy man in the world. In a puff of smoke the man is changed into a tall, strong, man with a chiseled chin and flowing hair. The genie turns to the second man who is in deep thought… The man crosses his arms and looks around as he struggles to figure out what he wants to wish for… He looks at that the man… and then turns to the genie and says…. Change him back!
That is Tucson. Are we Old Pueblo or New Pueblo?
Its easy to point your finger and tell someone else they are doing something wrong but how many of us are willing to take action? To put our names on the line and create something? If you don’t like what developers are doing don’t protest; get out there and build/buy it yourself. Don’t play the victim do something about it. Protesting is reactive, getting up working hard and getting shit done is proactive. We all have the power to make change. The question is are you committed to WORKING to make that change?
can people STOP selling everything of value for money. we dont want student housing here! those kids can move into the plenty of cute affordable adobe homes throughout the city. stay away from flycatcher