Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords starts out Monday with another new ad hammering Republican challenger Jesse Kelly. This time, Team Giffords is focusing on Kelly’s statement that he’d support a new national sales tax over the current income-tax system.
As we’ve noted before, Kelly has said he’d support the so-called Fair Tax, but he’d rather do a 10 percent flat income tax because “if 10 percent is good enough for Jesus Christ, it’s good enough for the federal government.”
The larger problem with the national sales tax is that it would have to be much higher than 23 percent to bring in as much money as the federal income tax. There are much bigger economic problems that come from it, but rather than lay them out here, I’ll just suggest you check in with Bruce Bartlett, a conservative economist from the Reagan administration who lays out why he thinks it’s a “totally crackpot idea” here.
This article appears in Sep 16-22, 2010.
FairTax.org Go there yourself and read about it. Gabby leaves out several very important steps, like the abolishment of the 16th amendment and the IRS, the prebate check to pre-pay for the tax on the necessities, etc… Yeah, 23% can be intimidating, but a guaranteed check in the mail every month? No IRS? Hmmmm….
It’s actually 30 percent, though, isn’t it? And putting something like that on the cost of a new home seems like it would ensure that the homebuilding industry stays in the doldrums for a long time.
Would you support taxing goods sold on the Internet?
Jesse Kelly supports a tax increase for everyone except those rich people who barely spend any portion of their income on what they need to get by? Why doesn’t he put this stuff in his own ads? It’s probably Constitutional and everything!
To Nintz:
“It’s actually 30 percent, though, isn’t it? And putting something like that on the cost of a new home seems like it would ensure that the homebuilding industry stays in the doldrums for a long time.”
The rate is stated at the 23% tax-inclusive (as is the income tax) or 30% tax-exclusive (as most sales taxes are calculated). On the surface, the rates seem higher since 30>23. However, tax-inclusive (exclusive) only refer to the manner in which the tax is calculated. Either way, the same amount of tax is paid. We who support the Fair Tax have been accused of lying because of the difference. However, that is not the case. The Fair Tax is quoted as 23% is for a quick comparison to the income tax, which is also tax-inclusive, and, since it is designed to replace the income tax, the reason for the tax -inclusive rate comparison should be obvious. Critics quote the 30% rate with no explanation as to inclusive/exclusive and with a little sleight of hand for three reasons: to accuse supporters of lying, bring confusion into the debate and try to scare away potential supporters. Article: A 23% tomato or 30% tomato: http://www.fairtax.org/site/News2?news_iv_…
On the homebuilding industry and home ownership– The Fair Tax treatment of home ownership http://www.fairtax.org/site/News2?news_iv_…
Why Residential Realtors Support the Fair Tax– http://www.fairtax.org/PDF/WhyResidentialR…
Promoting Home Ownership– http://www.fairtax.org/PDF/PromotingHomeOw…
Today, anyone buying a home is buying it with post tax money. Payroll deductions guarantee that. Also, when someone buys a home, there is always the estate and captial gains taxes. Please take time to explore the links. You might be pleasantly suprised.
Also, since Bartlett was mentioned, we’ve been familiar with him for quite a while. For those who are intersted, follow the link and check out the full story as well as some of Bartlett’s “crackpot” ideas.
Fair Tax search Bruce Bartlett http://www.fairtax.org/site/Search?SearchT…
Remember folks. The income tax gives the government power to tax every dollar and control how much you earn. If they have the power to take 15%, they logically have power to take 100%. Rates in America have been as high as 94%. http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/di… With rates as high as 94%, jobs left America and are not likely to return until the danger of the same confiscatory rates returning is eliminated. It is the income tax that gives Washington the power to control how much each and every American citizen can earn. Our government is bought and sold for “tax breaks.” While we go to work and can’t bring home a full paycheck, they are deciding how much of the money WE earned they think we “deserve” to keep. The rest will be spent before we can even file a return. Don’t kid yourselves! It’s done by both sides of the aisle. More than a few critics, have a vested interest in keeping the income tax. They make money directly or indirectly, because of it and do not want to give up their favorite “power” tool and cash cow, easily. Ultimately, it isn’t liberal vs. conservative or Republicans vs. Democrats. It isn’t even rich vs. poor. When it comes down to it, it is economic slavery under the income tax vs. our economic freedom under the Fair Tax and that for ALL Americans. the Index of Economic Freedom (Heritage Foundation) has us listed at no. 8, behind China. It’s time for everyone to be able to work, save and provide for our families without being punished for it. With the elimination of all income taxes, America would be the place on earth companies want to locate, build and hire employees when comparing our single rate, one time charged and collected, sales tax to rates they will pay in other countries (income taxes, VAT taxes, etc). America can be properous again.
Don’t take either my word or the words of critics for it. Check us all out. At Fairtax.org, not only can you find the economic research, you can find the Fair Tax critics and the Fair Tax response to them. Give us a fair hearing and I believe you will come to the same conclusion I have reached.
Support the Fair Tax.
Why Democrats should love the Fair Tax– http://www.fairtax.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticl…
To mr. meade:
Why the Democrats should love the income tax– http://www.fairtax.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticl…
MStreet: You write: “If they have the power to take 15%, they logically have power to take 100%. Rates in America have been as high as 94%.”
Well, by that logic, if they have the power to put a 30 percent tax on all goods, they have the power to put a 100 percent tax on all goods. Or 200 percent tax. Or 10,000 percent tax.
I recognize that many, many people are invested in the national sales tax. I think it’s a lousy idea, based on a belief that it’s better to have a broad base of taxes at a low rate rather than one tax at a high rate because you don’t distort economic decision-making. I also believe that the national sales tax would result in an increase of taxes on the vast majority of Americans while giving the most wealthy a big break.
“I think it’s a lousy idea, based on a belief that it’s better to have a broad base of taxes at a low rate rather than one tax at a high rate because you don’t distort economic decision-making.”
(Posted by Nintz on September 21, 2010 at 8:36 AM)
Thing is, Jim Nintzel, these tax debates almost invariably occur in a vacuum that ignores the expenditure side. Is there a tax type that reduces the probability of economically devastating, profoundly costly Bushistan-like adventurism (for domestic politics) in the future in places like Iraq and Afghanistan, the USA economic consequences of which will take years and years to clean up? Is there a tax system that can neuter and spay USA, Jim Nintzel?
Oh the bootlegging that would occur under such a tax! The cartels would stop running drugs and start running everything else instead (and they would probably be cheaper products too Mexican dirt diapers lol!). The Indian reservations would be the most popular places in the US – you can do a little gambling and buy your products tax free.
Hey Red Star did you know that both the Iraq and Afghanistan wars were not in the defense budget? They were separate appropriations.
But why o why are you asking Jim these questions instead of the candidates with their goofy ‘fair tax’ schemes that don’t address the problem you are referring to? That 23% would turn into 50% in a heart beat with every new appropriation and it would be an easy vote to do it with only one tax to consider. One vote could wipe out the economic security of the majority of Americans.
There is nothing Fair about the so called 23% Sales tax that Kelly calls the FAIR TAX – progressive income taxes provide for people to pay according to their ability to pay!
Arizonans need to wake up to the fact that having the lowest income taxes and shifting the burden to sales taxes in this state has gotten us to be No 2 in poverty and number 49 in spending on education. I lived for many years in Minnesota – one of the higher progressive scale income tax states – for our dollars we had highly rated schools, much lower in poverty- and SURPRISE!! Fortune 500 companies like 3M, Medtronic, United Health, St. Jude Medical, Honeywell, American Express are headquartered there –
Kelly stands for overly simplistic ideas- hardly nuanced and poorly researched.
Homework assignment: Take everything you buy today: homes, cars, food, gas, medical care, etc. Now, breakdown what you pay for each of these items: vendor cost, shipping, manufacturing/processing cost, wages, payroll taxes paid, income taxes paid, tax prep costs. Yes, the exercise is quite extensive and it will probably take most of the semester to do it because most of the taxes are hidden very well. Next, isolate all costs related to taxes and determine what percentage those costs are of what you are paying for the product. Then, estimate how much of all those taxes you actually paid during the year, add to that the income taxes you paid plus the payroll taxes you paid. Now, determine the percentage of all taxes paid vs your gross income for the year. Now, go over to http://www.fairtax.org and look up topics related to hidden and embedded costs. While you are there, look up taxation on foreign trade.
A well-worn phrase that I still love – “Corporations don’t pay taxes, we do”