Yesterday, we published a short item about Gio Taco, the latest venture to come from the folks at Metzger Family Restaurants, who are also responsible for Jax Kitchen and The Abbey.

The plan, according to the release announcing the forthcoming restaurant, is to move into east end of Congress St., in Downtown Tucson, where Gio will be producing their own spin on tacos — apparently, tacos “without rules.” I mean, why not? Seis, for an example, ventures away from the traditional Sonoran-style taco, working hard to create something that’s fun and tasty as hell. I say that there’s room for more than one place that doesn’t want to serve simple chicken or carne asada tacos in this town.

But it seems that some of you would disagree. From the Tucson Weekly Facebook page:

Great, one more place trying to reinvent something that doesn’t need to be reinvented and one more place I shant be setting foot in, ever, along with everything else in the shiny, new downtown. Now get off my lawn. xoxox – Dave, part of the “Keep Tucson Shitty” crowd…

This is exactly what downtown Tucson does not need. Seems like besides another “foodie” place on east Congress, someone would open a damn diner downtown, especially on west congress, near The Fox Theatre, and fill a much needed niche left by the closure of The Grill.

Those are definitely very good points opinions.

But here’s the thing about downtown’s dearly-departed Grill, and all of its similarly departed, scruffy, “character”-filled places: they closed for a reason — and many reasons, in some cases.

Let’s focus on Grill: As great a place as it was, as much character as it had, and as good as the food was (particularly for being one of the few options that was open at three in the morning) is that it was, in fact, a shithole.

The food was, putting it nicely, inconsistent (a hamburger cooked to medium probably should not be dripping with blood). One of the things that people seemingly loved the most about the place, the tater tots, could easily be found in the freezer section of your nearby Fry’s or Safeway. The bathrooms didn’t lock. Spotting a giant cockroach crawling around wasn’t an uncommon occurrence. At one point in time, the sewer lines under the restaurant broke, filling the kitchen with sewer water.

And you people who supposedly loved this place, who wish it was still around, who wanted it kept shitty, so you can continue living your artsy, bohemian, arrested adolescence? You’re the reason it closed:

If we had more nights like last night, maybe we wouldn’t be closing. Keep it coming, the countdown continues.
— Grill Tucson, Nov. 21, 2011

That was from the first night after Grill announced its impending closure. (A personal note: My then-girlfriend and I were among the last people to be served before the place finally shut down, because I just had to spend a little more time at the first part of this city that I fell in love with. I stole one of the newer paper menus that replaced the amazing laminated turquoise menus. It still sits on my desk at home.)

Grill, and its ilk, are and were great places. They were accepting, they were comfortable and, most importantly, they were convenient.

But they failed, because they treated customers terribly. Because nostalgia has a shelf life. Because “shitty” should be an ambiance, not the reality of the place.

Tucson should not be burnt out, filled with cracks, crawling with roaches, covered in drunken, paint-marker-and-chalk scrawls, just because that’s what we remember.

Tucson is a vibrant, passionate, scrappy community. We shouldn’t be tearing down the local people who love the soul of this city, who are trying to build up new, interesting projects to tie into the hardworking, local feel that we love. The heart of this city, the grit, will always be here — partially because you can never completely get rid of sand and dirt — but the shittiness doesn’t have to be.

Y’know, that might just be it. It’s not that Tucson is shitty, and that we should keep it that way. It’s that the crowd that wants Tucson to remain shitty is, in fact, shitty in and of themselves.

Well, you might want to get out of the way, guys. Whether you like it or not, Tucson is changing — the skeletons of developments rising around town are proof of that. So you’ve got a few options: work to maintain the grit in Tucson’s soul as the changes happen, or stay shitty.

You might want to be careful though if you take the latter path, because shit tends to get stepped on, scraped off, thrown away, and crumble into dust.

This article appears in Jul 11-17, 2013.

98 replies on “A Note To the ‘Keep Tucson Shitty’ Crowd: You’re the Problem”

  1. I ate at the Grill. Once. That was enough for me.

    Those from the sh!tty ilk can just stay away and enjoy life under their rock. Those of us who are LOVING it downtown will gladly take your seat at the bar…or table.

  3. Well said Dave. I was never a fan of The Grill. Of course, my advanced age might have had something to do with it. But I thought the food needed a lot of work and service…..snarling servers have their place, but really?

    We were Downtown a couple of Saturdays ago and it was great to see so many people there. All kinds of people. All venues packed.

    This is a good thing.

    I still think that Janos has a lot to do with it. He moved down there and others followed.

    Kade has done a whole lot to bring people Downtown.

    People who bitch are probably related to those who thought the earth was flat.

  5. Completely agree about the service at The Grill. I don’t know if they thought their rude, slow, cranky service was endearing, but it wasn’t.

  6. So happy to see all of the new restaurants in downtown. To those that want to keep it shitty…tough shit!

  7. I ate once at the Grill…food took forever and wasn’t that good…atmosphere , other than the grimy feeling just walking in, did seem somewhat nostalgic…ubut I never did return to that…what did you say?…oh yeah, shithole.

  8. The food was, putting it nicely, inconsistent (a hamburger cooked to medium probably should not be dripping with blood)….This.

    I was once escorted from the Grill for complaining about my bloody burger.

  9. David, I find your argument belittling of the broad and serious implications that gentrification has on a community like downtown Tucson. Your right. The Grill closed for many reasons. Who cares? But gentrification displaces less fortunate and marginalized members of the community, that are the very reason Tucson is what it is today. The Grill closing is not the potential problem with what is happening in downtown Tucson. When important cultural establishments can no longer operate due to high costs or their perceived “shittiness” that is a problem, and will continue to be so. When families that have called the downtown area home for many generations are viewed as making an area “shitty”, that is a problem. And that is what is happening in Tucson, whether you want to admit it or not.

  10. Haters gonna hate on The Grill. This article really does nothing to dispel the Tucson “Shitty” attitude by attempting to use the opposing view with the same apathetic roar. The point missed here is that, yes, people are proud of their Tucson and are really tired of people telling them what their city should be while taking the things they enjoy away from them. That’s not progress that’s just being an asshole. But yes, The Grill did close for a reason and there is nothing that we can do about that. But what about the Fox theater? That was meant to be a beacon of the future Tucson could look forward to with the idea of improving upon the old to bring downtown (Rio Nuevo, I’m looking at your sorry ass) and other parts of the city out of the slump they’ve been in for years. How did that turn out? Low attendance and City Bail-outs for a project that already cost tax payers millions. Sorry, I’ll hold onto the Tucson I know and love and if that pisses you off, well, then we don’t have much to talk about now do we.

  11. How old are you kid? Do you even remember what they had to do to build the convention center, what they tore down? Keep Tucson Shitty is just a euphemism, it doesn’t mean keep it crawling with roaches, it means that we should preserve Tucson’s character as a scrappy border city with a lot of HISTORY and character that stems from that history. I too enjoy many of the new places downtown, but let’s not overlook the effects of rampant development now that everyone’s trying to jump on the bandwagon. It’s sweet and all that after years in effing Oro Valley the Jax owners decide they want to capitalize on the new trend, but are they really “contributing” or just trying to get their piece of the pie?

    Keep Tucson Shitty means don’t develop for development’s sake. Perhaps a better slogan would be “Don’t Phoenix Tucson”.

  12. “It’s that the crowd that wants Tucson to remain shitty is, in fact, shitty in and of themselves.” — Quite a generalization, David. Shame on you, sir.

    I support (almost) all of the new places, but the fear is that before we know it downtown will be Mill Avenue or one giant Pizza Hut. It’s okay to have Pei Wei on University Blvd, but not on our beloved 4th AVE or Congress.

    There is so much more to it than you state. There is a line that should not be crossed. Should McDonald’s or Hooter’s have a place on 4th AVE or Congress? Of course not. Never. But that is where things are heading.

    I support places like Gio’s. I think most of the KTS people do. That is where you are confused. Locally owned is great. Keep those coming. The idea of “Keeping Tucson Shitty” is to keep corporate stuff out and not have our downtown rent skyrocket through gentrification, which seems inevitable, but that doesn’t make old-schoolers that oppose “shitty.” Tsk, tsk.

  13. I’ll start complaining about the growth downtown when the cookie-cutter “neighborhood grill” Chili’s/Applebees/TGIFriday start sprouting. But complaining about great, unique and non-corporate owned restaurants and bars opening? This is the most vibrant downtown growth that I’VE ever seen, and I say: BRING IT ON. Besides, there are still plenty of s-hole bars near downtown and 4th Avenue to keep the cockroach-lovers happy.

  14. The point that is being missed is that locally-owned establishments that represent the financial interest and uniqueness of our town are being bullied out of business. And I do mean bullied, out of their leases, literally.

    Big money out-of-towners are being offered lots and lots of financial incentives. Sure, their places are nice and they’re not chains. But they diminish the character and local flavor of Tucson.

    And some of them are pretty pricey, pricing me out of having lunch downtown even though I’ve worked and lunched there for 15 years.

    p.s. take your shitty accusations and stick them up your @SS

  15. Instead of the s-word, a better and more illuminating adjective to use would be “unpretentious.” Life in this town sucks, to some degree, and to pretend otherwise is to adopt the Phoenix mindset.

  16. I wish the mayor had a foot in scenester minutiae so he could write something like this and make people understand how passé they are. We’re not living in an 80s movie where anyone with money has ill-intent. Most of the people I’ve met who are making things happen down here are educated, socially responsible, and have at least a little bit of vision. It’s okay. Everything is gonna be okay. Stop panicking.

  19. It’s amazing the attitude money brings in. I’m guessing they are the ones that buy new opinions for the rich to feel comfy.

  20. One big problem: Early in the Rio Nuevo process, there was active talk of creating a proper town square-Museum Row- with a festival area to accommodate the growth and popularity of events like All Souls, Meet Yourself, Folk Festival, El Tour, 4th of July etc. That is all gone now, as plans are being made based only on how much money the land can make. I am deeply concerned that no thought is being given to how these signature events, and the tourism dollars they bring, will thrive in the future.

  21. So we’re clear, our policy isn’t to delete comments that disagree with the post or any stances taken in the stories (if it was, then our conservative friends certainly wouldn’t be seen in the comments).

    We’re pulling comments that are off-topic or unrelated to the subject at hand.

    Now then, please carry on with calling me a fool.

  22. I guess I’m the only one thus far to speak up for The Grill. My husband and I loved it. Yes, it was the only place open after a late-night concert. But it was more than that. Wheelchair accessible? Not so much. But the staff ALWAYS went out of its way to move a booth around for us. The servers were friendly. The people watching was incomparable. And the portabello mushroom sandwich was the bomb. I am super glad to see the revitalization of downtown (it — and the community — deserve it), but I am also sad The Grill is gone and I, for one, will miss it.

  23. It isn’t about The Grill or the new money coming in. It isn’t that gentrification is bad, but throwing the baby out with the shitty bath water doesn’t do justice to the culture or the subcultures.

    The saying started as “Keep Tucson Weird” from the film Alice Doesn’t Live Here Anymore – a scene filmed right outside the Chicago Store. Austin adopted that saying to keep their community from losing its edge as well.

    Keep Tucson Shitty is just a sentiment. Too bad it falls on deaf ears.

  24. Been there, done that… and I literally have the t-shirt. In my opinion, it’s not that these new businesses are bad… accept that they are pushing out legitimate neighborhood establishments. I would appreciate a diverse downtown Tucson. I see that disappearing, and it saddens me.

  25. David Mendez, since you clearly don’t understand the sentiment behind “Keep Tucson Shitty,” it’s probably fair to say you don’t understand Tucson as well as you think.

  26. I was born, raised and have now bred in this town. How many of you ‘keep Tucson shitty,’ fans can say that? I even LOVED the Grill, and i mean LOVED, oh iced tea gods how I love you. I watched my friends grow up and become Grill employees, and I watched the Grill become more and more inconsistent. Still I loved it like no other greasy diner, and I doubt I ever will love another as much.

    This said you “kts,” need to REALLY rethink your decades old priorities. This is NOT a new problem for this city. For decades a very small minority has fought tooth and nail to keep downtown Tucson … Shitty.

    Gentrification? Yes, because it was so much better when the downtown barrio was SCARY, for real scary and ALL of us who have always been here, we remember that and are glad it’s gone to the art hipster crowd. Heck, I’d love to live downtown just as much as I did when I was a child only now it’s not got the added bonus of being super sketchy. Perhaps people are referring to the explosion of AMAZING restaurants. Heaven forbid we get independently run non corporate eateries downtown. People, 25 years ago, we’d have rejoiced at WINNING the battle against the fears of a corporate downtown! We got the Gap out and we moved the local indie businesses in, and STILL, as true as the chance of a sunny day around here, the KTS crowd is angry.

    This crowd has ALWAYS been and sadly I think they always shall be. They’ve ruined so much good potentials downtown. Downtown is turning into the truly rad, urban hot spot minus big corporate America I always hated. It’s an amazing thing happening, and unique. Example, I LOVE San Francisco, but even their downtown is a montage of corporate enterprise. We’re creating something REALLY special here folks. Something truly atypical. We ARE keeping Tucson WEIRD! This is everything we hoped for and better! I dreamed and dreamed as a young teen that the day would come when we’d have a “modern,” respectable downtown. I was an angry punk rock / goth kid and didn’t want corporate downtown, I just wanted a downtown that was hustle and bustle, exciting! Here it is, and as I have grown to just know is as true as tomorrow being hot, the Keep Tucson Shitty crowd is crying tears about how awful anything but desolation is.

  27. While I did enjoy the food I had at the Grill, the owner was an absolute nutjob. I suppose there are different ways of managing a restaurant, but often times I would see him screaming at people in the kitchen, and I also witnessed an unfortunate incident where he and another employee screamed at and harassed a man who had fallen asleep in one of the booths and looked to be homeless. Never again did I go back.

  28. Shitty? I don’t want to live in a shitty place. Weird, strange, eccentric, yes. I liked the Grill when I was young and drunk but it was expensive and as far as culinary arts go..a big MEH. I outgrew the Grill and I love the locally-produced food scene. I work diligently for my hard earned money and expect more that frozen tater tots and keeping my feet in the booth so roaches can’t crawl on them. Times are a changing and that is a good thing. I’m glad downtown Tucson isn’t shitty. There are lots of areas in Tucson that are still shitty. Go for it.

  29. I remember pre grille Congress. I was shocked to see the view laid out in front of me as I trekked down 4th avenue yesterday. Suddenly there is this very stark structure that has a prison like feel sticking up above the underpass. It has no real artistic architecture… just lines of windows on white. It’s a shame we didn’t really restore the buildings of the past. Instead we succumbed to the progress seeking soul suckers who say that over used misnomer “Progress” as though it’s something that has to happen. They say to hell with anyone else who wants to be avant guarde or maintain some semblance of the Tucson soul. I agree the more recent incarnation of the grille was really funky and was going down fast…. but please maintain some of the charm and decor of Tucson’s past. We don’t have to be so freaking trendy and conformist for god sake and for arts sake. I say we allow for the uniqueness of the old beauty to show up just as much as this bland stark californicated style,that pushes it’s way in with pomp lacking circumstance. Shitty is in the mind of the beholder.

  30. Downtown ‘development’ is lopsided. I’m happy to see movement but I wonder if we are seeing the best Tucson could have done. The $$ invested (especially in the student housing projects) are not local and the profits from those developments will leave town (except for the tax base). Where was the local investment? Good for the economy you know. Some cities understand this sort of thing better it seems. There are too few non-service jobs. The plan relies too heavily on students and therefore expects to profit from student debt. I hope downtown gets to a phase of broader more general economic development where commerce and residential development outweigh the over reliance on restaurants and student housing. Another comment here alluded to the lack of a proper festival grounds / public square. That is a feature of great cities everywhere and it will likely not happen here now that the options have been dealt out….and of course the Arena and Music hall languish when cities around us have put in world class facilities. Well, they can fill the void in the supply of decadent decay left by The Grill and then some.

  31. donkiyoti, what I get is that “Keep Tucson Shitty” means a lot of things to a lot of people, and not all of those meanings are copacetic with one another.

  32. There is the theory that if people liked the Grill, they would eat at The Grill and therefore there would still be a Grill. But I digress….I suppose one could have walked into The Grill and just gave them money (Like an ex-wife or something) and NOT eaten at The Grill; therefore – A)saving them from a bad review and B) keeping them in business, but macroeconomics was never my strong point.

  33. But David, you still said “It’s that the crowd that wants Tucson to remain shitty is, in fact, shitty in and of themselves.” Amongst this crowd are business owners, artist, writers, mothers, fathers, daughters, sons, musicians, intellectuals, professors and teachers and caring people with and without money. I know them all and not one is “shitty in and of themselves. Maybe you wrote that venomous line to draw this attention. It worked. But it was wrong of you and your skills as a writer could be put to better use than being some “shock-jock” for the Weekly’s website.

    The shitty thing is a metaphor for “please don’t turn our artsy, quaint little downtown into Scottsdale.” There is also humor to it. Of course we don’t think it is shitty in the sense you are thinking, David. It’s being used as a funny alternative to “unique” or “eclectic.” It’s a creative slant. It’s hilarious, and it obviously drives a conversation. Anyway, you should probably issue some sort of apology for insulting those that make downtown great. You probably won’t. Oh well. Just don’t Phoenix Tucson, kid.

  34. As “shitty” as it was and as “shitty” as some of us locals are.. it’s not about actually being “shitty.” It was about embracing what we still had (after everything else starting shutting down – ie. Skrappy’s), even if it wasn’t perfect, like the Grill. So when Tucson had the highest poverty rate a few years back, and downtown appeared to be a ghost town, we STILL had pride in our town and the little “shitty” gems that were left for us to hold on to. I met lifelong friends at the Grill, I played my first show with Dream Sick there, I drank my first underage beer there… The memories go on and on…

    The bottom line is, two years after closing, we are STILL talking about the Grill. AND TO GET REALLY REAL ABOUT IT – THREE of downtown’s best restaurants are currently managed by former Grill employees: Wilko, Penca, and of course, the Cup Cafe. That’s just what I know off the top of my head, but I wouldn’t be surprised if there were more Grill veterans running the show around Tucson. Sure, the employees weren’t always pleasant, the toilets were rarely clean… BUT would you be peppy about serving drunk assholes at 3am? The place bred soldiers. There will never be another place like the Grill unless one of you decide to open it up… Probably not going to happen so just be happy you got to experience it and live on the legacy.

    I love to look on the bright side and in this case, good things did happen when the Grill closed down… La Cocina took on a lot of those shows and established itself as a new “shitty” approved hot spot, a lot of you were able to steal Grill items that you will cherish forever along with the memories, and frankly, the place burnt to the fuckin’ ground which is cool no matter what you say. Nothing will ever fill the Grills void – if they want to put something there, they are gonna have to start from the ground up – kind of bad ass if you ask me.

    Tucson is a city on the rise, you can either embrace it or hate it, that is up to you. I personally am all for embracing it because I want to keep it cool or “shitty” – however you want to phrase it. It’s up to people like us to set the standard for the new crowd… Whether it’s the kids who will be living off daddy’s money in the new high rise next to Rialto, or the new try-hards who are coming here because we are all of a sudden “hipster approved”… WHO CARES? Let’s just keep doin’ what we’re doin’ and make sure Tucson doesn’t lose it’s true identity with all the Gio Tacos, World of Beers, hotels, bars… whatever. We still run this big hot bitch. Tucson Summer Fun Club.

    P.S. Who is David Mendez anyways???

  35. Matthew: I’m the guy you just wrote a roughly 400 word response to. As for people in the food industry remaining in the food industry — well, yeah. If you’re good at what you do, you move around to other places where you can ply your trade. The terrible ones wash out. It happens. There were great people who worked front and back of house at Grill too, but there were just as many people who had no business being there.

    IamdowntownTucson: I respect that people don’t want the area’s identity to change. But when that identity is described, even in a tongue-in-cheek way, as “shitty” it doesn’t appear that you care about the area. I don’t revere much, but it seems counter-intuitive to be negative and say terrible things about something that you love. If the KTS scene loves Tucson so much, why the insistence on keeping it “shitty?” I hate describing it this way, but it seems stupid and hipster-y to say “man, I used to like Tucson so much more when it was shitty.”

    That’s what’s shitty to me: this attitude of treating this area that one supposedly cares so much about like it’s some run-down shack that they want to keep dilapidated because that’s what they’re used to. It services only those people. I’d rather see that shack painted, cleaned up a bit and made to serve a ton more people — as Black Crown Coffee did with the old Safehouse. The spirit is there, but made accessible for more than just regulars.

  37. Fer chrissakes, this isn’t a story about the g*ddamned Grill, a litany of after the fact 2 cents on a long-closed restaurant. It’s about how downtown has been changed.

    Just about everyone wanted something new to happen in downtown. But what we’ve seen has made many of us revisit the old adage, “Be careful what you wish for…”

    There’s some good new stuff downtown. But the slimy douche crowds that used to frequent the Keys and places out east are now downtown, fighting in the street after closing, and making the place unpleasant. Basically, if anyone remembers the kinds of crowds that the old Metro, Tiki Bobs, etc. at Stone and Toole used to get, well those places rarely lasted long, but now their kind of crowds are at multiple locations downtown. Plus, things are a great deal more expensive downtown now. It used to be that the frat boy crowds were limited to O’Malleys, Maloneys, and at one point, Isla Tiburon, and stayed away from most other places on 4th and out of downtown entirely. It could be said that I’m being somewhat elitist in my own bottom-shelf way, but I disagree. Tucson is great precisely because of it’s individual, non-cookie cutter attitude, which is slowly being lost.

    The unpretentiousness of downtown was always quite attractive. The “Mill Avenue-meets-Snottsdale” it’s being turned into is not very attractive, or distinctive. I never thought downtown was “shitty.” Foothills and far-eastside types who are afraid of everything thought it was shitty and refused to go, trashing it at every turn. So what? Let them go wherever it is that they go for their upscale experience, complete with a beer sommelier.

    Additionally, the streetcar is absolutely worthless. What’s it good for? To start your night at TCC and end up at UMC? There is simply no way to argue that it’s part of a larger plan to improve transportation in Tucson. If they eventually extend it down Speedway or Grant out to Houghton, I’ll be convinced that it’s not just a $200 million skim fund, including the $4 million being paid to some lucky company to “oversee” the construction of the trains in Oregon.

    Tucson’s NEVER been good at big projects. Most have been carried out disastrously. While it’s true that there are some good new things downtown, the overall cost and effect of revitalization is just another disaster to add to the list.

  38. The owner of Grill closed it. It did not go out of business. Get your story straight.

  39. Downtown Tucson wasn’t working for most Tucsonans, and now it is becoming a place that is drawing young, committed, smart people who are investing themselves in the city’s core. Not all the changes are great, but on the other hand you have dang-this-is-fun events like Cyclovia and Porchfest, in part because of young “heck yeah, let’s make it happen” people are calling downtown home. I’m looking forward to what’s ahead. FWIW I’m a native who remembers Steinfelds and Jacomes and the crazy gritty days of early 4th Avenue.

  40. I would much rather have Downtown Tucson be “shitty” which is filled with character, art, and life then be a place where the slogan becomes Keep Tucson douchey and filled with Yuppies.

  41. Honestly…people aren’t mad because the city is changing. They are mad because we’re all getting older and they want to hang on to the little slices of youth – like being so fucked up you can’t see straight at 3 AM and eating enough Grill tater tots that you don’t puke. It’s not about the city, it’s about ourselves. You can call it what you want about keeping Tucson “eclectic” or avoiding becoming a (progressively cultured and toured) city like Scottsdale. It is what it is. Things change. It’s ok to grow up. 🙂

  42. David – There is no KTS scene. That’s what you don’t get, because you’re new at this. You’re new at Tucson. I fear you are unable to wrap your head around this thing, so I’m giving up on you. But I will share this first: The saying “Keep Tucson Shitty” has been around since 1992. It used to be tagged around downtown as a warning, or even a plea, to all the college kids slumming downtown for a few hours before heading back to the foothills. Well, now those kids are going to be living in a high rise next to the Rialto; across the street from Plush. They are the ones who are going to piss on everything. Frat boys and more frat boys. Every year, more. Young Republicans everywhere. Only recently, has the term resurfaced. That, to me, is enough to look deeper than the first meaning in the dictionary.

  43. As far as I know that Dairy Queen on 4th is not a “local” business. Last I checked DQ is a major corporation. Going downtown sucks and it has pretty much sucked for a very long time. God for bid there is some money and ideas flowing into this sad little town. A town who is so afraid of becoming like it’s big bother to the west (PHX) that it fights any kind of relative change tooth and nail. I would welcome a Mcdonalds on 4th at least we know why the people working there are rude and surly because of their low pay and crappy jobs, not just because they are know it all, scene humping, douche bag, hipsters.

  44. If speakers of Latin had been willing to Keep Latin Simple we’d all be agreeing that tempis fugit when you’re having fun.

    Change is necessary if you want to keep alive.

  46. Taste the hate David Mendez. The Grill was a sanctuary, you don’t get it and you never will.

  47. First of all, I have a feeling that most of the people who are throwing insults around in defense of the Grill are probably teenagers. There is an enormous community of musicians, artists and “downtowners” who DO miss the Grill, who were so sad to see it go, but who DID get the reason why it was closing. It was its own institution, but the best thing it had going for it was the music and beer selection in the Red Room. And that’s not going to keep it going. As a dive bar, it was great. As a restaurant? It totally missed the mark unless you were wasted at 2 am on a Friday night. I loved the Grill, but everytime I ate there I wondered why I did. Downtown Tucson has struggled for SO LONG to have anything happening in it. People complained all the time that there was nothing to do or see. Now that something IS happening, what a surprise-complaints about in opposition of “gentrification.” Ok, I get it. I’m completely opposed to having chain stores everywhere and a lack of character thriving. But when I see what is happening downtown, I don’t see that. I see people who have been successful in other ventures in Tucson opening up restaurants on a strip that had almost nothing. I see such a cool selection of bars that 4th avenue has some serious competition. I see people talking about new and exciting things instead of having nothing else to say except “Downtown’s dead.” If you’re not happy with new and cool things going on around Congress Street, I’d say, then stay home. It’s been a LONG time coming that the community has some action in its heart. The economy can only be boosted by these new businesses, which is going to help pay for the repairs on the road by your house eventually. Progress is good! Save your bitching for the day that everything is bulldozed and a giant Wal-Mart takes over. And for god’s sake! Does everything have to be so black and white? Try some freaking delicious and creative tacos and get over yourselves!!!!

  48. All the new places downtown are great, but as someone said above, I’m beginning to get priced out of eating downtown. I just hope that some of these new places will offer some budget dining as opposed to the $12 burgers and equally expensive cocktails – or is value just for food trucks now?

    Don’t get me wrong – I love Playground, 47 Scott, etc, but I’d dine downtown much more often if there was something more wallet-friendly to add to the mix. I’m a single teacher, help me out!

  50. I moved here in 1996 and lived close to downtown, so I’d often walk to the library and go to Grill to read or write. Within the first week I moved here, I met one of the best waitresses I’d ever been served by there, and we became friends. During lunch the crowd from the government and businesses downtown would come for lunch: lawyers, bankers, etc. I know it was under different management then. I loved it for the interior architecture and it’s visual appeal–if I sat in a certain spot I could watch everything outside going backwards in a mirror. The secondary room, later called the red room, had a wonderful undulating ceiling that was made of plywood boxes (hard to explain). The coffee was good. I always got breakfast. It was a fun place to go after downtown celebrations, or after dancing. My friends and I had lots of laughs there over tater tots. I would never make them at home. “Hey you guys, wanna come over and I’ll make us some tater tots?” I’d rather be served my fat-filled potato products.

    Downtown change has been going on for a long time. One plan was that downtown was going to be a place where people could access different modes of transportation, but then they moved the Greyhound station to a desolate place down by I-10 where it’s difficult to get to unless you have get a ride from someone or a taxi; it was so much easier to get there when it was a block away from the Ronstadt Center–where the city buses bring people from all parts of Tucson. Plus the Amtrak station is there. People on a tight budget deserve the same amenities as the rest of us.

    I’d say the kts movement is merely scatological and is meant to “piss” people off.

    Shitty is indeed a poor term. Keep Tucson Unique would be nice. I would like to see different levels of economic uniqueness so I could afford to have coffee or eat someplace downtown, but they’re out of my price range now. There’s still Bruegger’s and Baggins open during the day and Subway is open until 9pm–thank you, but I’d rather not. I like eating at local establishments. For now, I’ll take my business to 4th Ave or other parts of the city. The Screening Room is still a treasure that has lasted through the changes, and there are some great playhouses worth checking out.

    Lastly, all sorts of people visit Tucson. Some of them may want to visit a funky (clean) little spot downtown. I would, too.

  51. I wonder how old the author is, or more importantly, how long he has lived n Tucson… I’m not gonna lie, I hate change. Downtown Tucson has hurt my feelings pretty consistently in the last 6 years. Does Dave realize that the “Keep Tucson Shitty” crowd is really just locals sharing an inside joke that is being kept alive by an AMAZING local artist? WTF? I get that this article is sort of meant to be provocative and controversial. But berating Grill two years after it has closed is kicking a dead horse. And yet I feel the need to defend. If you didn’t love it, than you didn’t go there, pure and simple. If you did love it, than you knew, and Grill was family. Maybe it was more like your drunk uncle that had some hygiene issues, but you still invited him to your BBQs. Not like your younger prettier cousin that got in to the good college and has a promising future that makes you feel guilty for liking cheep beer. My feelings towards Grill are mixed and I worked there for two and a half years. My cooks always did their best to serve great food, and I always did my best to be a friendly server. It’s hard to keep a diner clean when it has been perpetually open for 80 years and for the latter part of that 24 hours a day. Especially when the owners of the building refuse to condone any sort of upgrade. Whatever, Grill to me leaves the sting of a bad break up, mostly because it closed so fast I didn’t get a chance to say goodbye. But I will always lament the closing of it, because working there was one of the funnest periods of my life. The Red Room was an amazing place, and many musicians would come through Tucson to play there just for the free meal. I have yet to go to a show anywhere in town that can re-create the feeling of that room. I will now lament the change of most of downtown, from the go nowhere street car project, to the hideous mini dorms that are uncomfortably close to Rialto, and Plush. These are all reasons why I had to pack my bags and go. And writers like you make me sad for Tucson’s future. You missed the points, all of them.

  52. The Red Room wasn’t a shithole. That was a huge loss. It was a great beer and whiskey bar that served as an “intimate” live music venue, and had the incredible sort of old charm that make places like that truly great. The Grill was as polarizing as they come. But everyone who lived a certain period of their lives in Tucson has a story about it. And that’s what makes it an icon. But the fact is, icons are rarely money makers, and The Grill had to die at some point.
    Personally, I liked the food. When I lived Downtown, I would go almost every Saturday for lunch and, when I worked Downtown, I would go every other week or so. I never understood how they made it as long as they did because they were always totally dead during lunch.
    And I never could stand the fact that Lindy’s got credited as serving a great burger when it’s maybe one step up from Mc Donald’s, while The Grill was always ignored in terms of burgers. It may not have been cooked just right, but you were getting a $15 burger (what you would pay for it at the beloved Zinburger, where it will likely be overcooked and not as good) for $9.
    I’ll miss The Grill. But I’m not surprised it’s closed. Time has passed though; let it go. Move on.

  53. You got that one right. Momentum is on the side of Tucson. Finally! I’ve spent most of my life here in T-town, and for the last 50 years, the community has been talking about and spending money to revitalize downtown. The old guard is finally dead, and the good ol’ boy-one man, one veto way of doing business has died with them. They were controlling scoundrels who were falsely celebrated bullies and they lined their pockets by keeping Tucson shitty. It’s amazing how people will vote against their own self interest because change, even change for the better, is uncomfortable.

  54. Tucson dining now rivals Washington DC for cost. That’s kind of shitty. Still, downtown was long overdue for a revival. But when revival displaces character, a neighborhood enters a perpetual cycle of needing to revive — another shitty lesson learned in the Capital and New York, and every other city where Dresden-style upscaling has been tried.

    Succesful urban renewal retains the shitty and fills in around it.

  56. Ok settle down everyone. This, my friends is NOT a big deal. If you love Tucson so much, you will know that one stupid fancy (but potentially awesome) taco place cannot kill the soul of this amazing city. Now if we were talking about an Applebee’s or a Buffalo Wild Wings downtown I might be rousing up a protest.
    As an employee of one of Tucson’s longstanding institutions (Casa Video), I know about shittiness, roaches and the indie spirit. People ask us “why don’t you get a new carpet?” Or “why don’t you do a streaming service like Netflix?” We don’t because what we’ve been doing for 30 years serves us just fine, while employing a few new ideas. I loved Grill as much as all the other downtown dirty hipsters. But times change people. And I’m just saying there should be a balance to all of it. We will NEVER turn into Scottsdale. Don’t you worry your pretty little head.

  57. so, in short: kts=gentrification bad; local business good.

    downtown is full of local business. the conundrum is that most of the gentrification is a result of the city spending money, and encouraging developers to spend money, on extravagant projects downtown. however, this is creating more spaces for more locals to open more businesses, so it’s a double edged sward. and, a catch 22. which, as long as i’ve been in tucson, downtown has been the epicenter of catch 22’s!

    unfortunately many of the local business (old and new) are not making it because there are not enough people supporting them. and a lot of people are unhappy about that. but, instead of complaining about the changes, maybe don’t be a tourist on the north side and spend hundreds of dollars on dinner up there. splurge at the places downtown so they don’t have to close. a lot of us do, but do we constantly enough to really make a difference, or just enough to appease our guilt? (*insert sarcastic tone here* i ate downtown once this month! i’m a good supporter of downtown local business!)

    no one likes change, but we all have to live with it. so, suck it up, support the things you care about, and quit whining if you aren’t going to put your money where your mouth is.

    in my experience, i see people SAYING they wanna say they support downtown, but in actuality really just wanna spend 4 dollars on cheep beer, over tip their bartender, get into a show for free, and get a hook up on their bill from a friend working in the establishment they chose for dinner. this is how to pretend to support local business, but actually do it a huge disservice.

    beyond that, it’s sad to see people taking their frustrations out on the new guy on the block. anyone whose been to his other spots knows that the menus are pretty reasonably priced and they are family oriented. pictures of the children don the walls and the actual kids are there frequently. and, these are sit the down places. it is likely that a more casual place will have an even less expensive price point.

    but, this entire argument has noting to do with the new taco spot, i’m not even sure how they got intermingled, except that one person wrote a response to a pr post… hopefully everyone can divorce the 2 ideas in their heads before condemning a new local business before it even opens it’s doors…

    as to keeping tucson shitty, i guess its time to break out the stencils and wheat paste!

  58. In one fell swoop of a measly blog post, David Mendez was able to do more damage to the relationship downtown has with the weekly than a sale to the Wicks, or moving its offices to the south side. Way to bite the hand that feeds. The weekly was created as an alternative voice which was often for and about an “alternative” community. The fact that Mendez misses the mark just bolsters the growing chasm between the weekly and the community who helped make it successful.
    Downtown tucson is a unique oasis in an otherwise fairly bleak smear of strip malls and suburban blight, devoid of history and character. Like many other cities its size, the exodus away from the cities center during the 70s, 80s and beyond left a part of town that many people, aside from going to jury duty or their city/county jobs, avoided like a puddle of hobo piss. Artists, musicians, bohemians etc found it possible to, with a few bucks and a DIY ethos, carve out a niche for themselves. It was that way for many years, and out of that came a culture and a closely knit community. One could argue that another community was displaced ( the barrio), but that’s for another argument. Still, many hardworking, talented and creative people put what little money they and all of their hearts and talents in to making lemonade out of a lemon, and often with little financial gain, or support from the city or from what could be called “outsiders.”
    It’s that hard work and dedication to a small community that laid the foundation for what downtown tucson has become. Is growth bad? No. The problem is not that downtown has matured, but that it has done so at the cost of excluding small business owners and artists who laid the foundation for what it is today. The people who created a scene and an atmosphere that is finally now attractive to those from the east side or the foothills can no longer afford to do their thing because its too costly. Biblio, preen, grill, yikes/picante; the list of great businesses that set the precedent but are no longer around is long. Knowing many of these business owners and artists, I can say that had they been given the same treatment by landlords, the city etc that some of these larger newcomer businesses have, the dialog would be very different. But the loudest voices ofopposition to “the new downtown” are often these small business owners who, when faced with rising rents and little support from landlords who rarely (if ever) spent an hour or a dollar downtown, were forced to close.
    The phrase “keep tucson shitty” for those in the know is obviously not to be taken literally. It’s a metaphor. It’s cultural dissimilation. years ago, “outsiders” thought of downtown as a shit hole. For those who knew better, the phrase was a rallying cry. A way to keep the people with their bourgeois attitudes away. The fact that Mendez doesn’t get that just shows what side his bread is buttered on.

    I’m proposing a new “movement.” ( by the way, Mendez, there is no “movement.” It’s called Keep “Keep Tucson Shitty” Shitty. The first rule of KKTSS? Don’t talk about KKTSS to David Mendez.

  59. Frankly, Folks, I far more enjoy taking a short trip south of the border to Nogales, Sonora.

    Where I find far more warm hospitality than I’ve ever found in one of those very chilly Tucson malls.

  60. I believe this bashing downtown as a target for angst over a changing Tucson and a loss of the “local culture” is misdirected. It’s a great example of cutting off one’s nose to spite one’s face, in that you say you love downtown but are apparently abandoning it despite the fact that the problem is not downtown itself.

    The majority of the loss of local culture has instead been caused by the last few decades of Tucson’s suburban explosion. It’s amazing that you all are attacking downtown for a supposed “develop for the sake of development” attitude but have probably been silent as the entire city took that attitude as it spread uncontrollably laying down carbon copy subdivisions and concrete coated strip malls in its wake. This 200+ square mile suburban wasteland draws in new residents that desire that sort of lifestyle and who absolutely hate “downtown” type areas because they are not all the same. These are the folks who would rather see a Dave and Busters or a Old Spaghetti Factory rather than a Playground or a 47 Scott.

    Therefore yes Tucson as a city has a gradually degrading local culture thanks to this sprawl. To focus on downtown as if it is the problem is backwards.

    In fact, not seeing that type of business flooding downtown is a good sign that there is still a vibrant local culture to Tucson’s downtown. It is still financially sustainable to be different, and that’s an amazing thing.

    So the problem isn’t a lack of local culture downtown. What then? I can only guess the problem might be that it’s not your culture. I hear that from many of you when you say that you don’t like it because it’s full of “Frat boys” now. Not only is this hyperbole, it shows that you are focusing in on the few things that bother you as an easy target for an overall feeling of no longer fitting in. It’s no longer sleepy, cozy, and quiet and that doesn’t meld with your jive. This doesn’t mean it no longer has culture. It is just that it is growing a new culture and perhaps leaving you behind.

    What’s also hyperbole is the suggestion that every old place with character downtown has closed. There is still a lot of the old holdovers, and they will do well with the new street car traffic and downtown events. Heck, even the District Tavern was busy the other night when I was down there for Second Saturdays. I didn’t hear the owner complaining any more…

    And again, an exaggeration that it’s suddenly all too pricey. I read someone that mentioned coffee, saying that at least there’s still Bruggers. Have you tried Sparkroot? It’s no McDonald’s $1 all day coffee but still, $2 for a fresh cup isn’t exactly bank breaking. And at $6 their sandwiches are in the range of Subway but taste way, way better.

    So what I think is happening with this “movement” or phenomenon or whatever of tearing down downtown is that people are reacting to an overall change in Tucson in the last decade but are aiming their vitriol at downtown without really giving it a chance. They are dismissing it offhand not because it’s bad, but just because it’s different.

    It’s OK though, as you are the vocal minority. I’ve been enjoying what downtown offers since I moved here ten years ago and will continue to do so more every year as it grows in to a mature, vibrant community.

  61. I don’t much agree with KTS but am fully on board with “Keep Tucson Tucson Not Phoenix.” From that perspective, more power to you KTS!

  62. I can see both sides of this. We need growth and more diversity downtown, but we don’t want to lose the identity or feel of the place we remember. That being said, the last time I was downtown it made me think of what “alternative music” came to mean after Nirvana broke. There was a lot more money made, but overall the business end of things kind of damaged the art.

  63. No one loves Tucson or decides to visit here because there are good restaurants to eat at. That’s a baseline for liking or visiting any city. Having fine cuisine is awesome and needed but people’s affections for the Old Pueblo ARE also based on the “artsy, bohemian, arrested adolescence” of the city.

    No one visits Portland, Austin, Kansas City, Philly, NYC, etc. for the sole reason of eating the food offered without taking into account any of the city’s unique cultural elements.

    Do you not understand that “KEEP TUCSON SHITTY” is meant to evoke your exact sentiment of “work to maintain the grit in Tucson’s soul as the changes happen”? The phrasing maybe too colorful for you, but it riffs on “KEEP AUSTIN WEIRD”, which is about supporting local businesses which contribute the unique culture and history of the area.

    Your false dichotomy of progressives and SHIT heads, created out of ignorance or the need for copy, is pretty SHITTY. Oh, and as a former employee of the Grill, if I’m ever working at a precious little gastropub you come into, I will grind up cockroaches and mix them with my own SHIT and put them on your medium burger you send back because it’s too pink. Stay SHITTY David.

  64. Patrick: There’s a difference between calling your city weird and calling it shitty.

    And as someone who habitually overtips and never complains about kitchen screw-ups because I understand that things can go wrong in a kitchen sometimes, you’ll never catch me sending back a burger for being too pink — or for dripping with blood, for that matter.

    Either way, thanks for reading. Stay classy, friend!

  65. Your a moron David. The saying is just a saying from us locals who have been in this town for longer than you, I assume by your article that is. We don’t want the expensive and privileged weaseling their way into where OUR community once used to stand. All those bars and restaurants are gearing themselves toward the elite and we aren’t a town that’s about that.

  66. now before i get started, i am a 3rd generation local. been part of downtown scene in some capacity or another for 25 years. i understand the KTS mentality, and support it and am behind it to an extent, but i have seen the dark side of KTS mentality too. for now this is focused on just downtown, but in the past ALL of Tucson was affected.

    iv’e been listening to some kind of “keep Tucson shitty” mentality my ENTIRE life! started with my family when i was a kid… continued with their friends and their friends friends saying they were “local” and didn’t “want to become another California or phoenix” … Tucson locals managed to push out incoming companies and their jobs to small tiny places like Marana and Vail who are now booming all the while killing downtown Tucson and its economy. oh did i forget to mention all anyone did was complain about being poor and that the jobs here sucked the entire time i grew up? TUSD is one of the worst districts in the nation, crime is very high, poverty rate is very high… why? Tucson is broke, broken, corrupt, scared to change and scared to take responsibility for it’s “current” state and has been for 35 + years, just hang out on grant and Alvernon for 10 minutes. if Tucson doesn’t bring in money, real local paying money… whats next?

    well, it continues today (again, currently focused on downtown)… I’m hoping that everyone shuts the fuck up this time and works hard to support a growing downtown economy be it LOCAL gay bars, ice cream shops, traditional or non traditional restaurants, punk rock clubs, grocery, retail etc… support growth, support local and you can’t lose. i believe downtown Tucson CAN grow and maintain its gritty integrity at the same time.

    i am the generation who worked hard to own a business, is a father, got married, appreciates low crime,likes to eat good food (expensive or not) who still goes to punk rock and metal shows, hangs out at dives, gets drunk and pulls out his junk for a laugh… like me, downtown can still be a rowdy punk rock skateboarding ding dong but also grow up a bit. you can stay shitty without staying stinky.

  67. So, when downtown Tucson is a paved and glazed sheen with cash registers fronting where doorboys used to check ID’s, you’ll remember this li’l article, and realize that it’s partially your fault.

    I remember a downtown was filled with a neighborhood of friends. I knew more people working and walking around downtown than I did in my own neighborhood. I could walk into almost any eatery and ask my waiter who was cooking. And then to tell the cook that I was there and that I trusted their judgment. Send me food.
    From the Congress Grill to Janos, Tucson had a mood and a feel.
    Most of that is on it’s way out, and THAT is what makes a city; not the menu or it’s pedigree.

  68. Ridiculous… I for one will be maintaining my little corner of Tucson extra shitty with undigested corn and peanuts. Tucson kicks ass and I want it to continue to kick ass and this support the great people that make Tucson SHITTY. David, I’m sorry you’re so damn myopic you can’t see past the literal meaning of the word shitty. Maybe next time think about Tucson as a whole instead of your own shitty little bubble.

    Rock over London, Rock on Chicago!

  69. Seems that David Mendez has missed the point of “Keep Tucson Shitty”. We can have revitalization with out complete glossy gentrification, high priced fare and high rents that exclude many types of people and businesses that made downtown unique in the first place. And Donovan, see what you started!

  70. Shit, we’re a scene now? Are there meetings? I think I’m behind on my dues. Another hard-hitting journalistic endeavor about a place that has long since closed. Are you going to review the Titanic next? I can’t wait.
    What would have been awesome is if you actually spoke to somebody, namely the artist who made the shirts, maybe he could have told you something.
    Josh Cicci

  71. Isn’t it ironic that some of the very same entities that brought us urban sprawl, gutting downtown like a fish, are now being called upon to redevelop it?

    Isn’t it ironic that we are now marketing our ‘heritage’, our ‘cultural diversity’, our ‘history’ while that very heritage, those very people, are mired in poverty and are being left out of the downtown equation?

    Isn’t it ironic that we finally realize the indigenous people, the people that were enslaved, prohibited from speaking their own language, marginalized, actually had the wisdom and knowledge to survive here and are being called on to teach the remnants of the invaders their techniques?

    What is the purpose of a city?

  72. I can’t understand most of what people are writing. You make no sense. It’s impossible to tell what you are trying to say or what side of the issue you favor.

    The only thing I get from this is that you are all too sensitive and reactionary.

  73. Why not be happy for locally owned businesses that can thrive and have fun? Downtown is growing and we should all take pride in supporting local. The more the merrier!! Kudos to Brian- he knows what he is doing!

  75. Many of these businesses close simply because there are not enough of us that can afford to eat there on our wages. Tip snatching wage plunderers keep getting away with the oppression because the state laws are anti-worker and the state and federal agencies charged with worker protection have many insiders that are bought and paid for by business through their corporate legal professionals.

    -Restoring the balance will be better for our business, workers, and Tucson’s future

  76. you must have so much gold dust around your mouth, from your habitual fellating of the the rich.. move to phoenix. we wouldn’t want to offend you with our “bohemian” ways.

  78. I just don’t know that the development is sustainable. Tucson is run by developers, many of whom are making a lot of money whether the development survives or fails (and it’s worth considering a lot of it is on the taxpayer’s back). The sheer amount of housing going in dwarfs the jobs created. That doesn’t mean it can’t work. If the new downtown Tucson proves a popular enough place to move to, even more service establishments can come in to serve the new populace. But service isn’t generally a career industry. What’s going in will largely appeal to youth, many of whom might live here during college, maybe a bit longer, and then move away for greater career opportunities. Now that we’re committed to the development, here’s hoping the development will actually spur more industry and long-term career opportunities to move to Tucson, as it has in places like Austin. That’s me at my most hopeful. I do not have much faith in Tucson’s management. And as much as I enjoy visiting Austin, Tucson is my home and should retain it’s unique and proud character. Hipsters want to call it shitty? That’s kind of just a hipster thing. People have every right to call it what they want. I think the sentiment has a lot more to do with making sure we retain Tucson’s unique character, and taking civic pride in it.

  79. I have to say at first I wasn’t totally opposed to the “hip” new bars & restaurants which copied wilco and scott n co popping up everywhere but I do know that when I go out downtown now I enjoy it less and less. Some rich peeps saw $$ signs behind the hipster movement thing and now they are destroying it like they always do to every subculture movement that becomes popular. Sad but completely predictable. Currently the District is one of the few bars on Congress that I still enjoy going to and it feels like their days are numbered not because they’re a bad business but because someone wants to get rid of them and put in the next trendy bs thing in their spot.

  80. Is this the same kid that gave Pooping in reverse a bad review? If so it all makes sense. I think maybe maybe humor and satire is like a lost Sumerian language to this kid.

  81. First of all, this is just untrue. The grill went out of business because the owner took out too many bad loans on the place, and this is also why the place cut so many corners. Maybe he was a bad businessman, but similar things happened to so many homeowners who lost their homes due to predator lending by the banks (Tucson had among the highest foreclosure rates in the country). Second of all, people in this town matter whether or not they have a ton of money to throw around. Instead of a diverse downtown that is welcoming to everyone we have a bunch of ritzy restaurants and student housing that is way out of scale with average local rental prices. For those of you looking for a word to describe this, that word is “gentrification”. People have every right to be pissed about this and to want to push back, or at the very least to complain. I say to the “Keep Tucson Shitty” crowd, keep on shitting.

  82. lets just be honest guys. revamping downtown helps to do away with all those icky poor/homeless people so we don’t actually have to deal with them in a legitimate fashion.

  83. I am a 34 year old essentially Tucson Native. I moved here at the age of 4 and have lived in the downtown area for most of that time. I grew up on Granada and 6th, then for middle school moved to 1st ave just behind the buffet. In my adult life I have always lived walking distance to congress. I will say this, most of the downtown “scene” is people not from downtown, or people who even live there, but they love it none the less and I give them props for supporting most of my jobs with their patronage. I cooked at Grill for over three years and I can tell you this much, everything you said is kind of true, but why? It certainly didn’t start a business to fail, in fact when Forsythe took over from Graham in the early years it was making profit right off the bat. Slow summers sometimes saw the taking out of loans but nothing too bad, the big problem was the building was being fought left and right from condemnation. So much money went in to the plumbing, improvements etc there was little actual profit to be had. The Forsythes both actually had to have other jobs to live, Patrick eventually joining the Navy. I will tell you this much, that man had passion for his restaurant, he was steadfast on keeping it the way it was, nearly everything was home-made, and the regulars kept that place a float. But as do many things it slowly went the way of the buffalo, there really was no stopping it. But other than a filler afterthought Grill is not what this piece is about. This piece is about gentrification.

    I don;t pretend to know about the keep Tucson shitty scene I am just a local and a long time resident. I know plenty of people but don;t tend to get sucked in to the whole hipster subcategory, but of our hipsters I will give them this, they aren’t out buying $15 martinis on the regular and flooding our streets with money pushing out the locals, that is the cities doing. Unlike the hipsters of New York, ours won’t buy a PBR for over $2, most want cheap drinks and friends and nothing more. It isn’t a “scene” like you see on TV it is a collective of art crazy, fun kids.

    We have to face some facts, Tucson is a transient and immigrant city, not to say homeless people and foreigners, but college students and military. Most of the cities time the military kept to the suburbs and the University students rarely strayed further than 4th avenue. Now what is happening is Tucson is trying to create a vibrant downtown, which hey in theory I am all for, I like options. But what will the cost be. Soon every place willing to charge $20 for a burger and $8 for a local craft beer will be willing to wait on a lease to be up and pounce on it (this is what will likely happen to The District in 2 years) which makes me sad, because I don’t want to have to travel for my local stuff. What makes it even sadder is when those places will still employ the same kids working for at best $9 an hour who can now no longer afford to live or play in this downtown but rather will travel and live in the suburbs. We have some good local spots that offer slightly higher than mid tier dining and frankly we don’t need much more. All the newer local spots are still somewhat affordable for occasional treats and then there is still the place for every day gathering. So I say finish your damn streetcar, protect the existing businesses, and keep Tucson Shitty (whatever that means).

  84. I’m a Tucson native and remember the “first” renaissance of Downtown back in the late 80’s/early 90’s and Downtown Saturday Nights….art galleries, Mongelli’s, Frona’s (anyone remember the young guy who would play the piano all night?), various bands playing in the alleys, Café Magritte, Wonderland, Yikes Toy Store, etc. It’s great seeing all of the new restaurants and bars, but as several other people have mentioned, I feel like I’m getting priced out. $12 for a drink?! There really doesn’t seem to be much of a retail component going in and I miss all of the funky art and photography galleries. I only have so much money to spend on booze and food, and if I can get my beer for $3.50 at some dive bar, well, that’s where I’m gonna go. I ate at Grill once….and once was enough. Places don’t need to be a dump, but I’m also not fond of places that are “too cool” for the “average” types like me and it feels like Downtown is headed in that direction. Time will tell.

  85. Gotta say Josh, I appreciate your perspective — i disagree with some parts of it, but not as much as one might think. Thanks for that.

  86. Agree 100% about Grill and Tucson shit-nostalgia. Grime, drunks and a patina of old cigarette smoke does not equal charm. Anywhere.

  87. It’s not about the tater tots, David.

    I remember in high school we’d meet there frequently for cigarettes and coffee. As an undergrad, it was the go-to place for post-drinking eats. A friend who has an uncanny resemblance to Al Pacino (who will be airing in a Nivea commercial soon) used to work in the kitchen during the height of the Grill shenanigans.

    My point: Grill was about the community. It was local. The kids could be in charge. There was a unique punk rock quality to it found nowhere else.

    “Keep Tucson Shitty” isn’t meant to be literal. It doesn’t have to be crappy to be good. I’d say “shitty” in this case means keep it for us. Not corporations or chains. Keep downtown local and special, not branded with national conglomerates. No one wants the area to be the next Mill Avenue.

    But the scene has to evolve. Places like Hub and Playground may be contributing to the gentrification of downtown, but they’re nice places– and they compliment the seedier but just-as-charming Tucson originals perfectly. There’s room for both.

    All I ask is that it stay true to the spirit of Baja Arizona. The minute a Toby Keith opens up on Congress, though, I’m out.

  88. I sincerely hope that Patrick Karnaykeso’s boss has read this, and he is black balled from commercial kitchens forever, with that disgusting, vile, threat.

  92. The “skeletons” around town are the vibrant, booming Town of Marana. Tucson is the skeleton. Tucson thinks it is the first city to blight its way into bankrupcy amidst an evaporating tax base constantly harrassed by the needle-nosed Nannystate. Nope, Detroit beat you to it. See you downtown … downtown Phoenix, that is.

  93. I cooked the last shift at Grill. I never got paid for the last week I worked there and I never expected to be. After 8 years of cooking for Tucson companies (Grill, Feast, Janos, Penca, Congress) I will ALWAYS remember Grill to have been the greatest restaurant to ever be, in the history of the world.

    Too bad waitresses can’t smoke cigarettes inside/while taking orders anymore.

    Tater to or french fry in nose may complicate breathing H.D.L.T.S. TASTE THE HATE

  94. Thats not the “Keep tucson shitty” point.
    I think the point is that this toen had character and that is slowly being phased out. And that is the short version phoneix people referred to this town as shitty and I think that attitude is what the shirts are making fun of.
    something you folks at the “weekly” clearly dont get or understand.
    I for 1 like smaller towns with strange charm and appellee. I am not a “big” city kind of guy. And the recent “rio nuevo” development makes me want to move, and so me and my familys $ will be leaving this place as soon as I find a new job.
    Next thing you know they will want to tear down millers surplus and many other fixtures downtown. Dont drink the kool aid.

  95. Keep Tucson Shitty is like Keep Boulder Weird.. I hate seeing those bumper stickers because most of the time, those places are so normal yet a corporate facade adds a trendy/funky/hip style that people think is weird. The word shitty is startling and reminds those who understand the underlying philosophy, that this place is real. Keep Tucson Shitty is about saving the soul of this crazy, rebellious town. I’m appalled by your view on this phrase because either you don’t get and grew up on the East side or your from some shitty, bland suburb of Phoenix or monotonous California town. Tucson has little things that make it obscure, and for lack of a better word, shitty. It is interesting because the yards are not manicured, nor are the people. Companies downtown cater to the California kids who come to the UA for school yet talk shit because Tucson is shitty and Tucson is real. I’m sososo glad downtown has been revitalized, but what I hope never happens is rents skyrocketing to the point that local delights like Delectables or Lindys that have a strange, harsh charm and keep to their OWN style, can stay there! If there is a damn Starbucks on 4th ave I would be so sad! And more than likely those who think Tucson should become a robotic manicured and “corporately beautiful” town, would think a Starbucks would be convenient on 4th…I say to you Fuck Off! Tucson is fucking genuine, if you don’t understand move back to Phoenix. Keep it fucking real Tucson, keep it real!

  96. Portland insists that it stays weird. New Hampshire insists it lives free or dies. So, why should Tucson not insist to stay shitty??
    I think that your point, while well expressed, is lost the moment you refer to those that are the “Shitty” crowd as shitty themselves. Tucson had ALWAS been refered to as a “shithole” by non-residents (Hell, I’ve heard just as many locals use the same term) due to it’s lack of big city nightlife, trendy restaurants, and commercial corporate businesses. And, a majority of us liked Tucson that way. It kept out the droves of tourism crowds that plague Phoenix, the college kids left during Summer and Winter meaning that the residents had half of the year to themselves, and it kept the constant cycle of “trendy businesses” out while allowing local businesses to fill the same niche.
    Now, we’ve abandoned the businesses, things, and people that have made Tucson the endearing, amazing, essentric black hole that could never quite let you go, unique. While LANDMARKS like El Mercado Plaza, El Parador, DeAnza Drive-In, Toxic Ranch, El Taco, and yes, even the Grill give way to “progress”, we lose part of ourselves and our uniqueness to something bright and new and insignificant to our history and growth as a city. While we pour our money into shallow attempts to make a quick buck from a college kid and a bored community, we are literally forgetting about the things that made Tucson what it was, is, and deserves to be. Tucson was a “shitty” town that attracted and retrained the attention of those that loved it for what it is. It’s culture. It’s beauty. It’s community. Downtown has become wash of those elements. I feel this is best evidenced when you realize that the mural that adorned the side of the Chicago Music Store for as long as I can remember has become an unappealing white wall. A tribute to the banal concrete dorms that now invade the area.
    We have dumped MILLIONS into Rio Nuevo to do nothing more than leave leave thousands of our town’s residents jaded while ignoring the issues suffered by our largest school district, animal shelter, and CITY WIDE transportation (not just a college to downtown streetcar). Are we saying that the money and amusement if visitors is more valuable and appealing that that of the Pueblo’s residents? It sometimes feels like it…
    There really is nowhere else in the World quite like this place and the people it raises. I think it’s a shame to lose all the things that have made Tucson what Tucson is for the past 20-50+ years in such a short span for “growth and progress” with no apology for the trouncing and generalization of a city with one of the most unique and complex cultures in the country. You’re washing away the dirt and grime that cover the foundation of Tucson for your Connecticut based gastropub to appeal to a band of temporary residents while offering a shrug to the residents it leaves left behind. Some of us are left to pick up the pieces of a Tucson we love while others are lost in the shiny newness of a Tucson that we don’t recognize. And, those others just don’t care.
    That, my friend, is what I call a shitty attitude by a shitty person with a selfish opinion. And, someone that never knew Tucson in the first place.
    Sincerely,
    Brandon Lavenski for Keeping Tucson Shitty

    P.S. I will add that I appreciate the renovations to such landmarks as the Rialto and Fox Theatre. Not all changes are horrible things. The point here is to sympathize with those that have lived here their entire lives, uninterrupted for 20-some years, who have lost A LOT of Tucson’s seemingly permi net uniqueness permanently recently.

  98. Haters gonna hate. This aint phx and this aint L.A. and every town has it’s ups and downs.

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