Mike..this conversation could go on forever, it normally does when I state facts to racist fake Americans that think they belong here while displaying the utmost contempt for the people that actually do. BTW, your name is Mike?, really?..give me a break, I shouldn't even acknowledge replies from posts containing European surnames. I realize that most of you are victims of your twisted beliefs that were instilled there by generations of racist teachings, poor parenting and a downright willingness to remain ignorant. You went to a great deal of trouble to sound intelligent while spreading your misguided, disingenuous, racist banter, your dead giveaway (or at least one of them) was the ludicrous comment that all of you make "stop playing the race card' I have never known a racist that didn't immediately use this silly remark as a weak defense after he/she was properly outted/identified as what they truly are. I have been dealing with people like you since the early 60s, trust me when I say that there is nothing that you could possibly utter that I haven't heard at least a thousand times before, maybe in a different context or with a few words changed to better fit the particular group of minorities that are being attacked. I bet you even claim to be a Christian!
I actually wasn't even specifically referring to Arizona when I was speaking about you illegals, I was referring to this entire country. It doesn't matter in the least how Mexico viewed this area/state, how large or small the population of Mexicans were, or if there were disputes between different groups in Mexico. (That's the business of the Mexican Government and it's people) None of this smokescreen that you attempted to blow my way, justifies a European invasion, nor does it lend legitimacy to your erroneous claim that the decedents of the invaders (you) are the gatekeepers over the stolen land and somehow have a right to claim that the indigenous people of this region have no business on their own land.
Your silly and childlike rant is filled with references to "Americans" the U.S. etc., the very fact that you are constantly trying to pass foreign invaders and their European decedents (you) off as Americans, should in and of itself prove how twisted, misinformed and disingenuous almost everything you think and say is likely to be. In reference to your cartoonish rant of the day about how I Can get out if I have a problem with European invaders attempting to control the region, my response to you is the obvious. As a European invader on foreign soil, YOU have absolutely NO right or authority to tell anyone to go anywhere, if you cant deal with that simple truth perhaps you should sell your trailer, pack up your Willie Nelson tapes and head to the International airport. Don't forget to swing Weight Watchers and pick up your wife. As far as your racist rant against the "La Raza Studies" you have lost that battle as well, there is a well organized and highly successful movement taking place to bring MAS to every school Nationwide, not just in Arizona.
Almost every point you attempted to make about the Border Patrol is riddled with untruths, half truths and absolute lies! Not only do you NOT have a clue how background checks are conducted, how a file can lay on someone's desk for months and never even be processed, how a lack of manpower or hiring surges can effect the reliability of these processes or even that passing a background check in most instances, means absolutely nothing except that the person has never been caught or his mental instability has never piqued anyone's attention. Having been raised in a Police family (Real Ones) I am well aware of the mentality (or lack thereof) that one must possess to seriously compare a Border Guard to a real cop. (something you attempt to do all throughout your post/rant)
"I would like to know what they are doing that is "unconstitutional." Really?? You mean to tell me that a person like me who gets all of their information/education from the La Raza Studies at TUSD, can compile 3 1/3 file boxes (and growing) of documentation on these types of incidents/cases and a smart individual like you who quotes history and case law I(n a weak attempt to cover-up thousands of actual occurrences), cannot find any proof??? Have you ever shot a straight line in your life about anything? so incredibly pitiful - gotta suck to only have hate as one's companion. I am well aware of the 'Constitution Free' zones that have been set-up in our nation. none of this is applicable to my previous comments. Illegal Immigration began in 1492, Deal with it !!
Who's "homeland" are you talking about Norm? Arizona was first inhabited by the Hohokam people which might have been related to the present day O'odham nation groups. However, another theory is that the O'odham groups pushed off the Hohokam and took over this area for themselves. Are you talking about the Spanish that through their missionaries conquered this area from the O'odham? However, I am guessing you are talking about the Mexicans that through their revolution against Spain required this area. However, Mexico did not even consider this area as a state because of it very small population of Mexicans. This area was part of the Alta California Territory and even there were disputes between different groups in Mexico.
Although, this particular area was purchased by the US from Mexico through the Gadsden Purchase. Which Santa Anna basically conceded this area would have revolted sooner or later because of the large population of Americans that settled in the Southwest. So, again the only "homeland" you should be talking about is the O'odham people, which even then they could have stole it from previous native tribes. So, the US "stole" this land from Mexico. Mexico "stole" this land from Spain. Spain "stole" this land from the Sobaipuri people which probably were related to the O'odham. That is life. If you truly have an issue with how the US is the LEGAL owner of this area, get the hell out. So, get off your high horse and stop getting your information from the La Raza Studies at TUSD.
Border Patrol Agents (like most Law Enforcement) go through an extensive background check which can last over a year. When a person makes it through and gets hired, they go through a 5 month Academy and learn about the Constitution, Applied Authority and Immigration Law to conduct their job. I would like to know what they are doing that is "unconstitutional." Every part of their duties are backed by Laws, Regulations, and court cases. Their checkpoints were ruled Constitutional by the Supreme Court. Their traffic stops are based on several court cases that allow any Law Enforcement Officer to conduct a brief detention based on reasonable suspicion. Maybe before you just spew out words like "illegal and unconstitutional" you should research cases like "Terry vs. Ohio, Martinez-Fuerte vs. the US, United States v. Brignoni-Ponce, and laws like INA 287, INA 235, USC Title 19, USC Title 21.
So get off your misguided view of the "Border crossed them" crap, stop playing the race card, and pick up a history book. Maybe we should just allow the Baja Arizona crowd go a step further and give back Southern Arizona to Mexico. Then Mexico could feel bad and give it back to Spain, However, then Spain would have to give it back to the O'odham people. Then we would have to find wherever the Hohokam people went...
The only people I feel bad for are the O'odham people. However, that has NOTHING to do with how millions of people are illegally living in this country.
Got to love these people who stand on foreign soil with their pink skin, speaking the Kings English and telling the indigenous people of this continent that they don't belong here in their homeland. Don't like illegal immigrants? stop being one 1-800 FLY EUROPE, Please take your family with you. I love how the European invaders ratchet on and on about how "Hundreds of U.S Citizens fought and died to make the U.S the free country it is today".. If you want hero's shouldn't you actually be discussing how many of your European invader ancestors were lost murdering and pillaging this continent while stealing it from its rightful owners, so people like you can provide us with comedy relief as you stand here all full of yourselves claiming a land that is NOT and can NOT ever be yours. You people do realize that you are nothing more than the decedents of illegal European anchor babies, don't you?
Now getting back to the subject matter of this article. The United states Border Patrol is out of control, they have morphed into nothing more than a poorly trained, unintelligent, rogue vigilante squad. The thousands of illegal and unconstitutional actions that have taken place by this Agency and it's representatives are well documented. Since the lives of the dark skinned people who belong in this region, mean nothing to you because your imaginary border line crossed them many decades ago, Perhaps you would like to discuss the hundreds of recent abuse cases that are pending from American Citizens (yes, the fake pink ones that you so dearly love) No matter how much, disingenuous people attempt to rally behind this Rogue Agency and defend their inexcusable actions, the fact remains that there are BIG changes needed within this agency, including but not limited to.. Independent citizen monitors, congressional oversight and a total revamp of their policies, procedures, hiring standards and training. Rest assured these changes are coming and they are coming much faster than most people imagine. Excellent article by the way.
I agree with Mike. The bottom line is that people that have entered the US illegally should be deported. Try entering any other civilized country illegally and see what happens.
Heck, try to enter Mexico illegally and see what happens to you!
I have absolutely no sympathy for families that are separated because a member is deported. Take the whole family back with you. If you don't like living in your homeland, than make the changes in your society or government to make life better.
Hundreds of US Citizens fought and died to make the US the free country it is today. Just stepping across the border entitles no one to anything the US has to offer.
Hopefully, if the numbers are correct and 400,000 illegals are deported every year. Then within 10 years the majority of them will be gone.
Todd, your biased opinion on our government enforcing immigration law (which most countries do) might change if it was YOUR Social Security number that was being used illegally. Identity Theft is a huge issue in our country and a lot of it can be attributed to illegal aliens using them. Eight of the 10 states with the highest percentage of illegal aliens in their total population are among the top 10 states in identity theft (Arizona, California, Florida, Texas, Nevada, New York, Georgia, and Colorado).
If you still do not feel this is a important issue concerning illegal aliens, Can I used your Social Security number to get a loan? I promise I won't ruin your credit....
What did Law Enforcement ever do do you Todd? This is second negative leaning piece authored by you concerning law enforcement in about a month. Did you ever think of blaming people that are breaking federal law and they are the reason for the over crowded immigration prison system and not the Law Enforcement Officers, Prison Guards, and Judicial System?
Comparing our immigration laws to "Jim Crow" laws is like comparing any US president to Hitler. There is no comparison. You can disagree with our immigration laws, but comparing them to Jim Crow laws is just dumb.. I really hope your book has more balanced approach to this issue, but reading your opinion pieces in the Weekly, I will not hold my breath...
However, maybe I am overreacting to the issue of millions of people illegal entering and staying in our country. Unlawfully being present in our country is comparable to jay walking to some people. It must be the fault of our Law Enforcement Officials that they are just getting in their way....
Border Patrol: Immigrant attacks agent near Encino
Oh, & I also botched the original press release for THE GLASS MENAGERIE in January when I typed that Bette Davis was in the film instead of Katharine Hepburn. I had Bette on the brain b/c I had been promoting the film, THE MAN WHO CAME TO DINNER starring Bette Davis & Monty Woolley. So, you see...we are all human. =)
Apology accepted & appreciated. If it helps, I spelled Jay Leno's last name wrong in J-School at Michigan State & that was an immediate failing grade. Course, it wasn't a "real" article, but lesson learned. LOL
Bridging the gap between the sensibilities of a Tucson audience and the portrayal of real life drama happening only a few miles to our south through theater, is a supremely daunting task. These plays make an heroic attempt to widen our view. I am very proud of our efforts. These plays , I believe, motivate an audience to know and understand more. - Jim Klingenfus, Sound Designer.
My apologies for the phone number. I feel like a sub-human mongrel.
Just FYI... there's a typo in the phone number - instead of 622-1162, it should be 621-1162. Thanks!
There is a reason most residents in the Sonoita/Patagonia area are against this mine. You will find "Save the Santa Rita's" bumper stickers on members of the Tree of Life from Patagonia to ranchers in Sonoita. Opposition to this mine crosses the entire political spectrum. I even remember the 2010 Congressional Libertarian Candidate David Stokes being against the mine.
There are many reasons to be against this mine. Environmentally, it is going to use more water per month than Tucson uses all year. Which water in this desert is a limited resource. This will reduce the water supply for cattle ranches, farms, wineries, and orchards. Which we need copper, but we need food a lot more. Economically, the jobs created will be only a few hundred and there is no guarantee Rosemont will hire locally. There is the public safety issue of having hundreds of trucks driving up and down St. Route 83. Which is already a dangerous road to travel. This will also cause the road to deteriorate faster than normal. Rosemont does not have to pay any more taxes to compensate for this extra cost.
On a patriotic standpoint, Rosemont Copper is owned by a Canadian mining company where their biggest client for copper are Chinese companies. So, we are basically going to allow a foreign company to sell OUR resources to a Communist country. If we are going to destroy a fragile ecosystem, drain our already limited water supply, damage the economies of Patagonia/Sonoita, and leave a huge open pit filled with toxic water; can we at least keep the resource in this country?
I really can not see any logical argument for this mine. You do not need to be a left leaning tree hugger to see this mine will be a net loss to our community.
There are no jobs on a dead planet....
Sorry, never thought Tucson was solely a tourism economy. I'm talking about the Santa Ritas, Madera Canyon, Sonoita, and the Coronado National Forest which is mandated for multiple use - if the Rosemont Mine goes ahead, there will only be one use as no cow can graze and no person would want to hike it.
If the Rosemont Copper deposit was found in 1961, why hasn't it been extracted yet ? My guess would be it was not economically or environmentally viable, still isn't. And again greed is being put before our environment that can't be fixed when chemicals are introduced that degrade our water. Water. Where are you going to truck that in from? 2000 jobs? Not all those jobs will exist and even fewer will be for 20 years. Numbers exaggerated, like the jobs the Keystone XL Pipeline is suppose to bring to Nebraska - bogus exaggeration, corporate and political rhetoric. Both proposed projects by foreign companies for their economic gain, both won't bring much beyond potential for environmental catastrophe for local citizens.
Twenty years is a temporary job? How many jobs do you know of that will last twenty years? There are alot of Arizonans, who love to have one of the several thousand direct or indirect jobs that will result from this project.
20 years of work for a big ugly hole in the ground doesnt make sense to me. The Resolution Mine might make sense given the proximity to nearby open pits further north even though I believe itll use the cave block method. But just because the Rosemont site is in an active mining district doesnt make it the best decision for the city or Southern AZ. I think it would be short sighted to approve the mine for the quick and ultimately temporary boost in jobs when the long term impacts are weighed. The payback period is just too short.
Just because copper has not been mined in the area since 1960s, does not necessarily imply it is not an active mining district. The Rosemont-Helvetia mining district has been actively explored for its mineral potential since the discovery of the Rosemont Copper deposit in 1961. Numerous mining companies (Banner, Anaconda, Anamax, Asarco and Augusta Resource) have invested alot time and money evaluating this area.
While recycling is an important source for minerals, it will never eliminate the need to develop new mines to supply the minerals we consume everyday.
Diversified economies weather economic downturns better than those based on a single industry. Yes tourism is important to southeastern Arizona's economy, but so are the extractive and manufacturing industries. Solely basing Tucson's economic future on tourism is economic suicide.
Tourism and mining go hand and hand. The best case for this is one of the largest economic events held in Tucson every year, the Tucson Gem and Mineral Show. It is not a coincidence that the largest show of this type in the world is held in Tucson.
The first Tucson Gem and Mineral Show was held at the Helen Keeling Elementary School in 1955. The 1950s was also the time, when much of the copper exploration began in southeastern Arizona, which resulted in many discoveries in this region, including Rosemont in 1961. The area's mining history has definitely played and will continue to play a significant role in the Tucson Gem and Mineral Show's success. Other tourism attractions in the area include Bisbee, Tombstone and Jerome, all historical mining districts. There are tours given at the area's active mines (Morenci and Asarco's Mineral Discovery Center).
Rosemont is not one of those places David. That is why Rosemont is a historical mining district, not an active district. The local economy will be better served by the tourism the Santa Ritas attract than the short lived mine. In answer to your question where do we get the minerals to meet the needs of our society - we stop having a disposable society and recylcle that which has already been mined.
Casey - not every tree is a redwood or sequoia - mesquite and juniper are just as valuable and more so in the ecosystem of the Santa Ritas.
I am a Certified Forester that grew up in Sierra Vista, and visited the Santa Ritas for their uniqueness, including viewing rocks and minerals - minerals that should stay were they are, not be sorted out of the earth making a huge hole and slag piles that will irrevocably change the Santa Ritas all for the greed of a foreign company.
No one is suggesting that we mine in all possible places where they are proposed. There are hundreds of millions of acres of public lands in America that have already be placed off limits to mining activity.
However, Rosemont is in a historical mining district where copper has been mined since the 1880s. If the mining industry can not develop a new mine here, where can they develop the mines that will supply America's future demand for minerals?
Resolution near Superior? Curis' project near Florence? Pebble project in Alaska? Eagle project in Michigan? There are groups just like those here in Tucson, who are opposing these mining projects. The fact of the matter is just about everywhere a mining company decides to develop a project, there are groups like Save the Scenic Santa Ritas that oppose this development. So I ask again. Where do get the minerals to meet the needs of our society?
You can only mine in an area where the mineral resource is present in sufficient quantities and grade to make the project profitable to do so. Rosemont is one of those places.
Just because one uses technology and lives in the modern world does not mean we have to accept a mine at all possible locations where they are proposed. If preventing the Rosemont Mine and Saving the Santa Ritas means I have to spend more money on devices, etc., that use copper then so be it. This mine isn't worth it.
I'm sorry - I don't seen any trees in your picture of the site, much more 300,000 trees.....
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