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Re: “Ducey 'Next Step' Watch: Day 237—Talk Is Cheap Edition. Ducey's Funding-Lite, Destructive Education Proposals.

When I look back on my own K-12 education -- which was an excellent one delivered in a blue state that, unlike AZ for the last couple of decades, BOTH funded AND oversaw public education responsibly -- much of the content I learned, including physics, chemistry, trig and calc, was interesting but not needed in later life. It's needed for people on STEM tracks, and doesn't form a knowledge base the majority of our citizens will end up employing in their professions.

So no, there is no such thing as "base information on math and science" that forms a "base knowledge for every profession." There is a humanistic / liberal arts base knowledge of critical thinking, reading and writing, needed for constructive citizenship in a democracy, and then there's having the self-discipline and flexibility necessary to learn a new discipline or master a new content area when needed, which it's projected we'll need to be more able to do as the number of people able to make a living by staying in the same stable career throughout their working lives grows smaller, as most forecasters predict it will.

We don't live in anything resembling a "global society," whatever that may be. Even as our trade with other countries increases, local knowledge, local conditions, and local cultures persist. A teacher is someone who is fully educated themselves, knows how to assess the educational level of students and make intelligent decisions about how to help them progress in the content areas to the greatest extent possible during the time allocated for her to spend directing their learning. Much of her success in the endeavor will depend on her ability to engage their INTEREST, which has little to do with whether or not she is following the directives of a Common Core mandated from on high, and her ability to engage INTEREST can be destroyed by rigid mandates that certain topics or content be covered in a prescribed manner and in a certain time period and / or by the need to "teach to" standardized tests. If she is fully educated herself and understands child development and sound methods in the content areas, she does not need corporate / federal / state-level direction, and she certainly doesn't need "scripts" that mandate what she says to students, which some debased educational programs are actually introducing into classrooms at this point. All of these programs -- Common Core, standardized testing, scripted learning, etc., ad nauseam are associated with a massive and inappropriate condescension to and disrespect for K-12 educators, a distrust of their judgment, a notion that those who teach children are in some sense children themselves in need of direction from higher level authorities, and a desire to control them and the children under their care.

It's true that you won't get people who are fully educated and who understand child development and pedagogical methods without having the kind of professional standards the state of Arizona is now trying to abolish, and you won't maintain them in your classrooms without paying them a professional wage appropriate to the investment they've made in their own college and master's level education and to the ongoing requirements to maintain credentialing. But it's also true that you won't get them by turning a profession which had allowed creativity and individual discretion appropriate to fully educated professionals into a profession only fit for mindless automatons.

15 likes, 1 dislike
Posted by Yes to credentialing standards, no to Common Core. on 01/13/2017 at 2:31 PM

Re: “U.S. Rep. Grijalva Won't Be Attending the Trump Inauguration

It is amazing how many things are mistakenly labeled as racist, and then how racism is actually missed by those same people.

Inept? How many abandoned Obama because he was inept?

Does it set you off when somebody imitates Ricky Ricardo?

10 likes, 40 dislikes
Posted by The Russians Hacked My Email Again on 01/13/2017 at 2:20 PM

Re: “U.S. Rep. Grijalva Won't Be Attending the Trump Inauguration

But Wrong, Again...No- YOU do NOT get it! was calling you a racist bigot.

That is the truth which is common knowledge for those who actually have common sense.

I understand that you don't understand this because common sense is the lost ark as far as you're concerned.

36 likes, 12 dislikes
Posted by AZ/DC! on 01/13/2017 at 2:13 PM

Re: “U.S. Rep. Grijalva Won't Be Attending the Trump Inauguration

No, YOU do not get it.

FU for calling people racist bigots.

'Progressives' offer no value. Their entire agenda is to undermine and not respect the Constitution of the United States of America. You're communists and won't even admit it. And now you have been totally repudiated at both the state and federal level.

16 likes, 54 dislikes
Posted by What, Again on 01/13/2017 at 2:04 PM

Re: “U.S. Rep. Grijalva Won't Be Attending the Trump Inauguration

Wrong, Again...as usual.

Raul Grijalva was born in the USA.

Your racism blinds you from facts.

Dying slowly...although the pace is increasing with each nasty, racist and ill informed post.

47 likes, 18 dislikes
Posted by AZ/DC! on 01/13/2017 at 2:02 PM

Re: “U.S. Rep. Grijalva Won't Be Attending the Trump Inauguration

No, YOU do not get it.

The comments made earlier do have racial bias interjected into them. Just because there is one drunken, rotten apple among the elected progressives does not negate the value of the issues which we support. We, unlike most right (gotta be right all the time) wingers is that we can fess up and say that someone who is allegedly progressive is not serving the community. It will be sometime before most of the die in the wool "Trumpies" abandon him for being inept. He will do nothing for the lower and middle class of this nation. He will make it easier for the rich to get richer on the backs of the working class.

Raul always has a driver. One of his enablers.

12 likes, 30 dislikes
Posted by No- YOU do NOT get it! on 01/13/2017 at 1:58 PM

Re: “U.S. Rep. Grijalva Won't Be Attending the Trump Inauguration

" The millions who did not vote because they blame both parties deserve respect."-huh? You were elected by voters to represent the non voters and get them some respect? Respect is way over rated when it is doled out like accepting full responsibility for something. As in Janet Reno and the Branch Davidian deaths. It meant nothing.

Nancy Pelosi said Wednesday that when the ACA is repealed that those poor people would no longer be productive members of society, because they lost their preventative care.

Nancy, they have a $10,000 deductible! That prevents them from going to the doctor. And the skyrocketing rates are keeping the REAL rate payers from eating.

Take you socialist progressive ideas back to the country where you saw them working successfully and join them.

The voters have spoken.

21 likes, 45 dislikes
Posted by Allen S on 01/13/2017 at 1:49 PM

Re: “U.S. Rep. Grijalva Won't Be Attending the Trump Inauguration

So basically all the posters are correct? This is not about racism except by him and his progressive racist roots.

Apparently we don't "all get it." Progressives will allow anybody to advance their cause as long as theirs is also hidden in their amongst it.

Do you know if he is driving drunk?

21 likes, 51 dislikes
Posted by The Russians Hacked My Email Again on 01/13/2017 at 1:40 PM

Re: “U.S. Rep. Grijalva Won't Be Attending the Trump Inauguration

It is no surprise that Trumpites would talk smack about Grijalva and add enough comments for us all to recognize that they are racist bigots. We know their roots and we know what to expect. OK we all get it.

What I think is being lost on many in Tucson is the amount of disgust that Grijalva has accumulated within the Mexican voting community. I live, work and socialize mostly on the beautiful west and southwest side of Tucson. For about a year and a half I have repeatedly heard criticism about Grijalva. Here is a short list:
The lack of responsiveness from his office. It is extremely slow or non-existent;
Raul Grijalvas continuous display of drunkenness in public. He falls all over himself; stammers and basically embarrasses himself;
His constant interference into Tucson Unified School District politics based on his daughters lack of skill and ability to do the job on her own. She would be a big zero without his political support;
His exploitation of progressive issues. He knows that those of us who are progressives cannot much argue with his voting record. However, for him this is a no brainer. He supports every progressive issue and knows that it is going to go down in flames in the current Congress. He hardly has to work but he still accrues points; and
His is so-called machine, which may be losing some its steam. (Many of Rauls candidates lost on November 8th, including one who he practically raised: Cam Juarez
It is time to oust Raul and replace him with someone outside of his incestuous camp. The Grijalva machine is not serving the community, inclusive of the Mexican community. He has not delivered much of anything to improve Tucson or to positively impact the working class of Tucson.
Raul has become the worst of politicians. His alcoholism impedes him both physically and mentally and he relies on all of his enablers to help him get by. Getting by just is not good enough.
(A short list of his enablers: Mona Grijalva, Adelita Grijalva, Glenn Miller, Regina Romero and Mr. Regina Romero, Richard Elias, Ramon Valodez, Dan Eckstrom, Jonathon Rothschild, all Tucson Weekly writers, the Pima County Democratic Party, HT Sanchez, Kristel Foster, Cam Juarez, Isabel Garcia, etc.)

28 likes, 40 dislikes
Posted by Disgust Grijalva Has Accumulated in Mexican Community on 01/13/2017 at 1:32 PM

Re: “U.S. Rep. Grijalva Won't Be Attending the Trump Inauguration

Oh no. Tell me it's not true. Raul the fool won't be there. They better keep all guns and sharp objects away from Trump. What does this self-important putz think Trump is going to do, beg him? What a brass pair.

24 likes, 58 dislikes
Posted by CW13 on 01/13/2017 at 1:28 PM

Re: “U.S. Rep. Grijalva Won't Be Attending the Trump Inauguration

Mexico? I tot he was kuban.

14 likes, 58 dislikes
Posted by The Russians Hacked My Email Again on 01/13/2017 at 1:17 PM

Re: “U.S. Rep. Grijalva Won't Be Attending the Trump Inauguration

Of course he won't. He hates America. He's so crushed he won't have any power to actively destroy it anymore.

And his 'constituents' in Mexico should welcome him back to his home country.

27 likes, 65 dislikes
Posted by What, Again on 01/13/2017 at 1:00 PM

Re: “Ducey 'Next Step' Watch: Day 237—Talk Is Cheap Edition. Ducey's Funding-Lite, Destructive Education Proposals.

The only problem, there, "yes, no," is that these were standards, not straight jackets. And do opponents believe there should not be base information on math and science that should be universally known regardless of location? After all these ARE the base knowledge for every profession. The question I kept asking was should there be regional standards for math knowledge, biology and geology, computer science, English grammar, in a global society. The irony is that the same critics who whined about US students not competing with students in other countries then did not want universal, international standards "straitjacketed" on our students.

17 likes, 9 dislikes
Posted by Frances Perkins on 01/13/2017 at 12:51 PM

Re: “U.S. Rep. Grijalva Won't Be Attending the Trump Inauguration

Oh my gosh. Donald will be heartbroken if this racist gaspacho is a no show. If he could drop the hatred long enough to listen to them he would have heard the ACA is not being repealed without a replacement coming on board.

Try giving some respect. You might get some.

You and Sen McCain could get together to plot against our citizens.

28 likes, 65 dislikes
Posted by Dan Hyde on 01/13/2017 at 12:03 PM

Re: “Editor's Note

Cold blooded killers.

5 likes, 17 dislikes
Posted by Concerned Mom on 01/13/2017 at 11:57 AM

Re: “U.S. Rep. Grijalva Won't Be Attending the Trump Inauguration

A Phony uses a phony excuse to disrespect the new President. I've said it before and I'll say it again, Raul is a jerk. A grade-A, can't be topped jerk.

38 likes, 67 dislikes
Posted by Mac on 01/13/2017 at 11:55 AM

Re: “Editor's Note

Markx,
As you said, history is hard. Let me help you and make you proud.
PP has its roots in Brooklyn, New York, where Margaret Sanger opened the first birth control clinic in the U.S. She founded the American Birth Control League in 1921, and she changed its name to "Planned Parenthood" (PP) in 1942. History, Markx.
And Kermit Gosnell?
Gosnell's trial was very informative for you history buffs. His Clinic and the PP exchanged patients over the years from about 1972. Some Gosnell patients complained to PP. PP said they would report Gosnell to Health Authorities. They (PP) never complained or reported Gosnell to Health Authorities.
Why not?, you might ask.

Among other historical connections between Gosnell and PP (three blocks away) over thirty years of trading patients, page 96 of the Grand Jury Report investigating Kermit Gosnell details what has come to be known as the Mothers Day Massacre.
It was also detailed by James Taranto in the Wall Street Journal:
"It was called the Mothers Day Massacre the brainchild of Harvey Karman, an eccentric California man without medical training who had served 2 years in prison for performing illegal abortions in the 1950s. Karman teamed with a young Philadelphia doctor who offered to perform abortions on 15 impoverished women, each between four and six months pregnant, who were bused to the (Gosnell) Philadelphia clinic from Chicago on Mothers Day 1972.
"What the women didnt know was that they were guinea pigs for a device Karman had invented, which he called the super coil. He had tested it only on wartime rape victims in Bangladesh, where he had traveled under the sponsorship of the International Planned Parenthood Federation."
That was the "Planned Parenthood Federation" for all you history buffs.
And that young Philadelphia doctor, of course, was Kermit Gosnell.
The Super Coil was a bunch of razors coated with protective gel and wrapped into a ball before being placed into the mothers uterus. After warming up in the body, the gel would melt and the razors would spring open cutting up the baby. You must be so proud, Markx.

There's lots more history. History experts should look this stuff up before preaching.

5 likes, 20 dislikes
Posted by William Heuisler on 01/13/2017 at 10:46 AM

Re: “Ducey 'Next Step' Watch: Day 237—Talk Is Cheap Edition. Ducey's Funding-Lite, Destructive Education Proposals.

I was with you, Frances, until you started pitching for Common Core.

Fully educated, fully professionalized teachers -- the kind we should continue recruiting to staff our classrooms -- do not need (and most I know do not want) a rigid straight jacket tying them to regulators' vision of what is appropriate to teach to every same-age cohort of kids in the United States.

Ever heard of Vygotsky's zone of proximal development? You determine where a particular cohort is and gear instruction to meet that cohort where they are, taking them from point A to point B or from point B to point C. Leaping from point A to point Z is impossible and expecting it is abusive of both the teachers and the students in question. But it is exactly those kinds of leaps that are prescribed by rigid, top down, uniform standards like Common Core that are developed at a considerable distance from those on whom they will be imposed and do not acknowledge real and important differences between cohorts living in radically different circumstances throughout the US.

Children are not widgets, and their learning cannot be manufactured according to specifications determined by authorities with no direct knowledge of the characteristics of the groups in question.

"..the larger and more authoritarian an organization, the better the chance that its top decision-makers will be operating in purely imaginative worlds." Kenneth Boulding

14 likes, 3 dislikes
Posted by Yes to credentialing standards, no to Common Core. on 01/13/2017 at 10:43 AM

Re: “Ducey 'Next Step' Watch: Day 237—Talk Is Cheap Edition. Ducey's Funding-Lite, Destructive Education Proposals.

You should allow a place for high achievers who will be competing in the global race. After all, they will be the ones subsidizing those who are not able to achieve.

60% of Households Now Receive More in Subsidized Income Than they Pay in Taxes - REDISTRIBUTION OF INCOME!
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-11-18/6…

And everyone balked at "47%". Try 80% dependent on 20%. Do you really think that a country can achieve anything at that point?

Teacher training? They need to take a Non Violent Physical Intervention class so that a teacher knows how to handle "Special Behavioral Problem" students when she is attacked! I had such training and after retirement went back to Substitute. As a SUB (because of this training), I was required to "follow" ONE student all day long to keep him from attacking other students and teachers while holding onto my hair and scalp! Education has been reduced to this a dumping ground for parents who didn't particularly want kids but needed the deduction!

3 likes, 24 dislikes
Posted by Postimpressionist on 01/13/2017 at 10:31 AM

Re: “Ducey 'Next Step' Watch: Day 237—Talk Is Cheap Edition. Ducey's Funding-Lite, Destructive Education Proposals.

We have a shortage of doctors in rural areas of the State. Let's just relax regulations on doctors or allow Cochise or Mohave Counties to just write their own regulations on doctors. This will solve the shortage problem. Right, Kelli Ward? It's similar to those who hated Common Core standards. When they were asked to specify which standard was most in error, of course none of them had ever read the damn things. So Arizona changes a couple of minor standards, slaps a new label on them and magically, Arizona Standards, none of those pointy headed standards from Obama. Works the same with doctors. What could go wrong.

20 likes, 10 dislikes
Posted by Frances Perkins on 01/13/2017 at 10:24 AM

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