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Comment Archives: stories: News & Opinion: Messina

Re: “Messina

In 1906, France decided that "public affairs cannot tolerate religious views or anything religious for that matter", and therefore enacted a law on a complete separation between government and religion.

Posted by Edith on 08/28/2010 at 2:06 PM

Re: “Messina

Does anyone understand Steve's use of the term "dichotomies"? Where is the dichotomy in being secular (respecting the freedom to believe or not as one chooses) and support for the Constitutional principle of Separation of Church & State? Steve, how is it that "secularists are misguided"?

Steve also misses a rather important point. Secularism is a philosophy, not a religion. To be a religion, it would have to include some belief in the supernatural, which it does not.

Steve claims that we secularists don't like God because we don't want to submit to His authority. False. We simply don't see any empirical evidence of an all-powerful, benevolent creator of the universe who interacts in human affairs and protects the innocent and vulnerable. Because people like Steve do, we think of them as gullible and superstitious.

The members of CFI of Southern Arizona don't really care what others believe. None of our business. Until they make it our business by forcing their irrational Christian worldview and Bible morality on the rest of us through law and public policy. Jim Gressinger

Posted by Jim Gressinger on 08/28/2010 at 2:04 PM

Re: “Messina

It is difficult to understand how members of the Center for Inquiry of Southern Arizona (CFI-SAZ) can justify ending the influence that religion has on public policy in America. They say their mission is "to foster a secular society based on science, reason, freedom of inquiry and humanist values." So, how can they demonstrate science, reason, freedom of inquiry and humanist values when they attempt to separate the fact that religious people founded this country; our Constitution supports keeping government from interferring with religious freedoms; and our cultural/social creed is "IN GOD WE TRUST?" Obviously, these questions represent only a few of the dichotomies involved in this topic.
Understanding that America was originated to get away from religious persecution, I believe that it is possible these "secularists" are misguided to say the least. Nevertheless, they have the right to believe not in God, but only themselves; and code words like "reason" and "science." This is their religion, however pitiful. Obviously, I am playing along here with the topic as the secularists would have me react, because the truth of the matter is that they dislike God and they will not have God tell them what to do. So, their issue is with God and not the faithful. However, they will continue on their path to try to remove the rights of the American Citizen with the argument that public affairs cannot tolerate religious views or anything religious for that matter. Strange. Perhaps they should move to a country where religion does not interfere with their intolerance. Let’s see, what country doesn’t believe in God in one name or another?

Posted by Steven on 08/26/2010 at 10:11 AM

Re: “Messina

Samhain, re No. 4: None of your comments have been removed, save the two that you said were out of context--and I removed those after this comment was posted.

Posted by Jimmy Boegle on 08/12/2010 at 11:33 AM

Re: “Messina

1) There are phone plans that let you pay for unlimited texting and unlimited features without contract

2) People years ago would say why write a letter to someone accross the street when you can simply pick up the phone and call them.

3) Texting is a preference just like anything else.

4) Why are my comments being deleted?

Posted by SamhainAZ on 08/12/2010 at 11:19 AM

Re: “Messina

I agree with you wholeheartedly. Great post. I'm specifically drawn to your paragraphs about letter writing. I yearn for those simpler times as well. There was something more sincere and genuine about that. Last week a co-worker directed me to The Things Unsaid Project (www.thingsunsaidproject.wordpress.com) and I was blown away. It's based in IL and real new, but I love how they insist on handwritten letters. So much better than text or e-mail and so much more personal.

Keep up the good work!

Posted by TinaMS on 08/12/2010 at 10:23 AM

Re: “Messina

j'ai 70 ANS je suis un passionné d'aviation,jedirais ceci malgré son handicap,c'est
une personne qui a défier la normalité, ces parents un exemple d'amour je les glorifient
car piloter un avion dans ces conditions mérite des compliments a la hauteur de cette
personne exceptionnelle l'audace le courage la tenacité et surtout un travail exemplaire pour étre pilote je m'incline, avec ma plus grande considération

Posted by RATELCAMILLE on 08/08/2010 at 3:17 AM

Re: “Messina

As a user of and volunteer in State Parks in both AZ and OR I add a strong positive vote for the use and financial support of publicly funded parks. They are unique places. One plan in AZ's political trick bag is to privatize the State Parks. If this happens, I fear they would be commercialized, expensive to access and lose much of the beauty, historical, educational and specialness they have now.

Posted by native daughter on 07/15/2010 at 10:02 PM

Re: “Messina

The solution is a constitutional amendment, like Oregonians placed on their upcoming ballot in November, assuming ~110,000 of the nearly 200,000 citizens' petition signatures are valid.

The measure makes 15% of the lottery money a permanent, constitutional imperative for Oregon Parks & Recreation and other environmental programs. Most notable is the Park A Year Program which acquires sensitive environmental areas throughout Oregon and places them in the State Parks system.

This coming September, Beaver Creek near Newport, Oregon will become an Oregon park. The flagship of the Oregon park system is Silver Falls with ten waterfalls and a wonderful trail that takes hikers along streams with the ten cascades. In 2013 Cottonwood Canyon along the John Day River in central Oregon will become another state park.

Arizonans could accomplish the same thing by taking the decision out of the hands of the cretins in the AZ Legislature and constitutionally fund a parks system via a citizens' initiative.

Posted by Ricardo Small on 07/15/2010 at 7:28 AM

Re: “Messina

THOU SHALL NOT COVET THY NEIGHBOR'S WIFE DON'T WE HAVE ENOUGH FILTH IN THIS WORLD ? AND HOW DO WE TEACH OUR CHILDREN ANY GOOD MORALS WHEN THINGS LIKE SWAPPING IS BEING PRACTICED RIGHT HERE IN OUR OWN CITY

4 likes, 42 dislikes
Posted by moochie1959 on 07/03/2010 at 6:31 AM

Re: “Messina

"Great, this summer my kids are having a great time at Scottsdale, AZ. I have registered them for the AZR Summer Camp’. They have the best yoga Zenergy’, fitness training Enerjoy Fitness’, Oxford Learning, climbing, playing climbing related games, fun to do activities and three different camp options. I found this event on, www.azontherocks.com/kids_stuff/climbing_c… . They love it there. I will be sending them next week for the Body and Brain Camp aswell, which they have. I am happy my kids are safe and are learning new skills there."

Posted by julia on 07/01/2010 at 4:20 AM

Re: “Messina

WOW! They can see the future! I'm sure they saw BP sitting and doing nothing in april when the Deep sea horizon exploded! Maybe they should have warned someone or said something?

Posted by SamhainAZ on 06/18/2010 at 9:53 AM

Re: “Messina

Interestingly, the self-same astronomers that are covering up the approach of the nemesis planet are building telescopes and spacecraft that won't be finished for another ten years. But, if that doesn't convince you, please send all your money to ....

Posted by W Corvi on 06/18/2010 at 1:45 AM

Re: “Messina

Cool, there are people that seem to know the future. They must be very smart. Stupid me, I just go along expecting the earth to be more or less the same every time I get out of bed in the morning. I guess I need a "futurist" to tell me what to expect. I am sure they know just as much as the average religious leader. Maybe I could ask the Pope.....

Posted by Lingo Head on 06/17/2010 at 8:23 AM

Re: “Messina

I love this article and the helpful and much more realistic view of the future events. You can also check out the work of Gordon Michael Scallion, a futurist of Earth Changes and find a similar viewpoint.

Posted by KathyH on 06/17/2010 at 6:01 AM

Re: “Messina

My then-19 year old son committed suicide 11/05/05....Since that date, I have learned more about suicide than I ever knew. And thanks to Tyler with SOS of Tucson, and also thanks to articles like this, I have been able to talk without feeling ostracized about suicide. The comments before mine touch in part what we as survivors of those who have committed suicide go through every single day...and probably will until we die...but I'm grateful for all of you...and for any and all help...to get through the pain.
robin

Posted by robin on 06/03/2010 at 11:23 PM

Re: “Messina

As a hairstylist, I once followed the lives of 2 women clients whose sons had taken their own lives. Month after month I heard their stories of emotional pain. They talked to me because I would listen with compassion and this continued for over 2 years, long after their friends had stopped listening, believing these women should be getting on with their lives. Just hearing the stories left a mark on my own life. I learned something about death from them that changed me. Mostly more compassion for those who are left behind. This article deserves to be shared with as many people as possible. I was like a bystander at a train wreck. I'm a listener and I believe that is all I can do, so I listen when a friend tells me his girlfriend committed suicide and I continue to listen as long as these survivors need me to listen. Thank you Irene for this article, it has great value.

Posted by KathyH on 06/03/2010 at 8:40 PM

Re: “Messina

Thank you Irene Messina and all the other great weekly staff who are finally putting suicide in the papers. Thank you for not being afraid to publish these stories. Because of you, and the others at the Weekly, you have saved lives because reading and educating ourselves is prevention.

When someone takes their own life, we have no idea what goes through their head. Once a woman attempted suicide and was almost successful. I was asked to visit her at the hospital. I did so. She had tried to take her own life in front of her two small children. When I asked her what she was trying to do, she said her pain was so great, she did not even see her children. She could only see the pain that was right in front of her.

Her story took my breath away and more and more people who have attempted suicide have shared similar stories. It is so hard to suffer from a pain that literally blinds you. We must have compassion for these people, and we must give everything we can to those who have lost their loved one to suicide. They are left with a legacy of pain and suffering and questions that can never be answered.

No, the woman had no idea her children were in that room and her pain and suffering blinded her. By the way, she lost her mother to suicide and could not cope with it. That is the legacy that it leaves behind. So what we are left with is how to do comfort and help give those who survived an opportunity to live again? By doing what Josh is doing, or doing what Dawn is doing, or doing what I am doing. Reaching out to the community and providing opportunity through awareness.

Thank you Weekly for doing that and thank you Irene.

Posted by Tyler Woods on 06/03/2010 at 9:01 AM

Re: “Messina

The Right to Die

I am a survivor of suicide and I CARE! My husband of 30 years opted out of life in an effort to take control over the one thing he believe he had the ulitimate and final say over. I am here to tell you that his suffering and unhappiness did not end with his passing, but rather, it lives on in those of us he left behind. My youngest daughter said it was as if dad passed his pain onto us and it is true. Here we are 4 years later still suffering the fallout of this un natural disaster. I say un natural in the sense that it goes against what a normal reasoning and healthy brain would decide upon, unless you are a completely and truthfully self centered person who cares nothing for those they leave behind, which in most cases simply is not true.

In defense of the right to die; I believe that a person whose quality of life has been so severely compromised may very well have the right to die. What I do suggest is that those of us who have been left to grapple with their decision and live with their unmanaged pain is not a decision we made. So how does that work. Yes you have ultimate control over ending your life, but what about the lives of those you leave behind? Yeah, I know, you don't care, but do you have the right to take theirs too? Because this is exactly what happens. I don't suppose you consider yourself a murderer, but taking someone else's life is a crime rather or not you actually kill them. Most folks never fully recover and they live with the suicider's pain and frustration for the rest of their lives. Unfortunately survivors are punished for your crime against yourself by the stigma associated with suicide followed by being socially ostracized. Do you have that right?

Generally speaking I have compassion for those who struggle every day with suicidal ideation. I had the misfortune of living my husbands's dying. He wanted to live and he actually did consider the impact on those he left behind. He was not a selfish person but his need for relief from his suffering became the center of his life up until he completed. I also know that he had no idea in his twisted thinking just how much of his pain he would transfer onto those left behind. Suicide has a ripple effect and it leaves a wide swath of pain and un answered questions that torment the surviovor forever.

So, if you must end your life, then please be certain that those you leave behind understand that you are making a personal choice and that it is not about them. Be sure to let the police know that you did it to yourself so that your friends and family don't have to be under suspicion for murder and then don't leave your body for your friends wife or children to find.

Dawn Harward, CEO
SuicideSurvivors.info

Posted by dawnart on 06/03/2010 at 7:36 AM

Re: “Messina

I can't in good conscience agree with guilting people to spend their money in a place that passes laws they disagree with. I'm sure you wouldn't like it if someone did that to you.

Posted by Lucy in the Sky on 05/23/2010 at 9:48 PM

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